Unproven though mate. Who else at 126lbs would have even took Barrera, Morales, and Marquez the distance? Juarez and John, but both would have been spanked on neutral territory. I'm not impressed with John at all, he gets a dodgy decision in his homeland against Marquez, and then almost gets knocked out by Juarez, who is about as limited a fighter as you get. Horrible division really, and so is Super Featherweight, Middleweight, and Heavyweight. I stay in touch with the game, no doubt about it, through thick and thin, but we need some new blood.
That list on the first page wasnt to good after #6. A fighter that was way more accomplished that should have been there was Luis Estaba,also Rosendo Alvarez made some title defenses here too and Bebis Mendoza. 1.Jung Koo Chang 2.Chiquita Gonzalez-Michael Carbajal 4.Myung Woo Yuh 5.Yoko Gushiken 6.Hilario Zapata 7.Rosendo Alvarez Would be even higher but only made 5 defenses 8.Ivan Calderon 9.Luis Estaba 10. Jorge Arce 11. Melchor Cob Castro was very good and was past it when Arce beat him 12.Saman Sorjaturon 13.Leo Gamez probably better than this but he moved up after 14.Bebis Mendoza Had lots of great close fights with Rosendo Alvares 15.Joey Olivo we fought at the Same Gym and he should have got the win over Yuh, would be higher but lost to great competition like Zapata and others and held the title for only a little bit but he was super fast and tall for a Jr fly 5"8 1
Gamez multi weight success is a bit of an alphabet era joke really.Similar with Duke Mckenzie being a "3 weight" champion. I did like Gamez at the lower weights he fought at though.Yuh's rematch with him might be his closest to a real definer for Yuh.
Gamboa will clean up though, probably do the same at 130. One guy who I DO NOT buy into the hype with is Donaire; I'd be interested to see what you think of him. Nice aesthetically, nice punch selection, decent whack in both fists, has one good win over Darchinyan; but top ten P4Patsch Am I the only one or am I just a cynical old ****? PS: Valero is ****in shocking.
Absolutely. It just sounds good and I'm in the business of hugging Yuh's nuts at the minute. Don't worry, it'll ware off. I've not seen it yet but I think Yuh taking a year off after his defeat to Ioka in Japan, to come back and beat the same man in the same arena...is sublime.
I like Donaire. He's textbook. The left hook that put down Darchinyan was just a thing of beauty. Couldn't have timed it better or placed it better, wonderful! Having said that, he's taken his foot off the pedal since that breakthrough victory, but he's the best Super Flyweight in the world for my money and I hope to see Donaire vs Hasegawa at 118lbs one day. These P4P lists...Donaire isn't on it because he's just that damn good, he's on it because we're in a poor era...as far as I'm concerned. Of course, we have Pacquiao and Mayweather, but Hopkins and Mosley are still the best in their respective divisions? How can that be? I may be being a little harsh, but I'm getting more enjoyment out of looking at past fighters these days than I am tuning into Pascal vs Diaconu II or Guzman vs Funeka. ...Side note, how in the hell are you about to talk about Gamboa and then talk **** about Donaire.
Im not so sure about Alvarez being that high. He failed to distinguish himself from Mendoza in like 22 fights with him and thats pretty much all he did at the weight. The best straweight Ricardo fought quite clearly but his record after he left the weight is fairly average.
I agree that to make the top10 pfp list is not as hard as it use to be,Donnaire gets on by default. What did you think of my top 15 Mini fly list addie?
Before I go; I'm not saying Gamboa is in the top ten P4P Gamboa has just been consistently mind-blowing performance wise, I think his attributes are just superb. Okay, he's a bit open, but I don't think he's got a bad chin. I haven't seen him visibly stunned or hurt yet, whilst he has been dropped. My main reason is taking offence at Donaire's high standing in the press as of late is that the man who he beat has gone on to achieve so much. A rematch is vital. Hasegawa would spank Donaire IMO, too good. ANOTHER reason why I feel the need to criticise Donaire, Hasegawa has been consistantly sublime and gets little to no credit although Donaire is being hyped to the max. It's late. I'm stoned. Forgive me PS: I really like watching Donaire work though. Nice combinations, precise punching form and nice movement/footwork, though he seems built to be a primarily offensive-led fighter. Nice ring generalship in the three rounds leading up the annihilation he laid out on Darchinyan, but I feel someone as precise, changeable (from mid-range boxer to bombing sharp shooter) like Hasegawa would take Donaire out of his comfort zone and shut hum down. Only my opinion and I'm happy to be proved wrong, I'm a fan of Donaire's :good
I see your point maybe i shouldnt have put him over Calderon,but in a H2h matchup I think Alvarez would fare well with any one at JrFly thats why I had him here. You say his record was only average but he only loss by dq,and at the end when he jumped to jr bantam. What did you mean in your last comment about fighting lopez quite clearly?
I think your main criteria was a mixture of ability and what's the best way to talk up Ricardo Lopez. Just kidding mate, but Alvarez didn't get enough work done in the division to be that high up in my judgment. His crowning achievement was arguably a loss...at Minimumweight. I respect your opinion however, and I fully intend to look up more of Alvarez, who impressed me in the first Lopez fight. I probably had him slightly ahead..or it was even, can't remember now. It was close though, and a great shot that but Lopez down. We have a difference of opinion on Humberto Gonzalez. I keep banging the same drum, but I do have a lot of his stuff coming in the mail. About 7-8 of his fights to tell you the truth, but I don't think he was good enough to be considered joint second at the weight. He was a good pressure fighter, and had a lot of power for the weight, but he was susceptible to getting hurt and I find it astonishingly hard to believe that The Ring Magazine ever had him at P4P 1. I think outside of his fights with Carbajal, his punch technique was a little lacking. That said, I am a big fan of his. I know it seems as though I've just **** on him, but he had his strengths too. Good pressure fighter, good body puncher, threw in combination well, and had a lot of power for a man of his size. He has the two wins over Carbajal, and arguably took part in the 2 greatest fights ever taken place at 108lbs. He was a great fighter, but just not good enough for second place in my judgment. I think Yuh was more complete. Not a bad list though. I do have some research to do regarding Alvarez, Chang, and Zapata. I think I have a good understanding of all of their strengths, and where they should be placed all things considered, but a close-up look at these guys would benefit.
:good Nothing outrageous said there chief. I do think Gamboa is only doing what he's supposed to do. This kid was a world class Amateur, and yet he's still fighting pretty low level competition and has been knocked down a few times in the process. He's not my kind of fighters, too much flash for me, but I do concede that he should be doing great things in the near future. Even with his inclusion, 126lbs is shocking.
Even though i had him 2nd i agree with your opinion on Chiquita as a fighter. I think hed beat Chang in Changs prime but i put Chang over him cause Chang wouldnt have loss to some of the guys Chiquita loss to. I said the ring had Chiquita #1 pfp puncher not as a fighter. At the time They had an article on the best pfp punchers and Chiquita was rated one and Tyson 2 at the time. I know he made their top5 pfp list but i dont think he ever went any higher than 3 or 4. I see your point about Yuh and i think the top 5 is really close not much separating the top of the list i wouldnt argue no matter how you rearranged the list.