"Vitali Klitschko is very beatable" Is he? Weekend analysis

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BigBone, Dec 15, 2009.


  1. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Vitali looked very beatable tonight" - average ESB poster

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    Come again? Got hit by FIVE power shots?

    The guy on my avatar asks you not to lose your mind just because it's a HW fight, and look at the fight as any other to find out that:

    1) Kevin Johnson is an outstanding defensive fighter for a HW. People don't look good vs. great defensive fighters

    2) Kevin Johnson has no offense whatsoever, or his jab based offense was totally limited by Vitali Klitschko, who made not a single mistake, therefore never got countered

    3) So guess what dummy, it was a BOXING MATCH, and Vitali won every single second of it!



    So let's say Bernard Hopkins or Floyd Mayweather decides to go all 36 minutes on the defensive for some reason, using head movement, upper body movement, shoulder roll, pick up punches with gloves, turn away/lean back/duck under shots, BUT! not fight back unless there's an opening, don't open up, and be the opponent Manny Pacquiao, Andre Ward, Arthur Abraham or Chad Dawson, the fight would go down the same how Kevin Johnson vs. Vitali Klitschko did. But wait, it's impossible! Hopkins and Mayweather has offense and not scared to use it! Exactly! :deal

    Johnson himself admitted, he was waiting for a mistake to counter and for "Goofy" / "Robot" Vitali to get tired. Guess what, neither happened in 36 minutes of action. So Vitali approached the fight as a boxer not to go wild and get countered, took a stance to stay close, work, work, work, counter if Johnson himself opens up, and lean back if Kevin pops out the jab (BTW Johnson had the reach advantage.)

    Since Johnson never opened up with punches, just popped out the occasional jab, he wasn't beaten to the punch like Arreola or got seriously hurt like Lennox Lewis, who guess what, got tagged because they went in to win, opened up with punches, and got caught.


    - imagine Floyd's or Hopkins' defensive skills adjusted for a natural HW (not Toney), with the size, speed and mobility limitations, and there you have Kevin Johnson, the first outstanding defensive American HW in a very long time. He has great reflexes, quick upper body and head movement, good punch estimation to pick up shots with the gloves, lean back, roll under or use the shoulders, etc, he has it all. However:

    - he's a very average offensive fighter fighting scared. And the combination of this results in Saturday's fight. The sort of explosiveness the young Tyson had might've put Johnson away, but since he's a great defensive fighter using all skills, reflexes and energy to defend and to land a counter something Vitali never gave him, every other HW would've fought this kind of fight, because somehow you have to fight. I just doubt every other HW would've gotten away taking just 5 power shots.

    All the greats had dull title defenses, Ali, Holmes, Lewis, everyone. You can't look good vs. a very negative fighter who's good enought not to be put away, and that's what he's looking for.


    Now Vitali Klitschko, at 38, didn't make it ugly, didn't look clueless, didn't go wild and got countered, he made the necessary adjustment: BOXED through 12, made it a worksmanlike fight, threw 1000 punches (most of them lefts just to keep Johnson's jab at low frequency) and got hit by FIVE power shots in the process. "HE SHOULD RETIRE!" Lol.


    We already knew Vitali can bang you away, lead with the jab, counter effectively, chop you down, drop his hands and still not get hit and "do a rope-a-dope without a rope" (Larry Merchant). Now we know he's got the condition to do 12 rounds, throw a zillion punches and get hit by five power shots in return.

    (Here's respected analyst Dwyer's view from Johnson's point of view, bringing in Ali-Foreman)
    [yt]MCJTV2Ndqqg[/yt]

    So who and exactly HOW will beat Vitali Klitschko?
     
  2. rainmaker

    rainmaker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Who and HOW will beat Vitali Klitschko?

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    Haye by brutal TKO. Vitali is ripe for the picking.

    I saw many opportunities that Johnson had to let go with some shots and not get countered. If you watch Vitali is caught off balance on numerous occasions, imagine a boxer with a puncher's instinct and the speed and timing to deliver a crisp hard shot? Haye can do this. Haye is quicker than Johnson, Johnson was able to land jabs, Vitali showed little by way of head movement and his foot speed was very slow.

    Vitali will struggle with a reflex fighter, a guy who has good footwork, mobility and bags of speed. When is the last time Vitali beat or even fought someone like that? Vitali will be in total shock, cos he's used to guys with little power and little output.

    Don't get me wrong, Vitali has a solid game, but I'm just looking at the Vitali of now, and he's slowing up. A prime Vitali is probably too much for Haye, but right now, I think is a good time to fight him. And I see Haye actually stopping Vitali on his feet by around round 10.
     
  3. steele311

    steele311 Wanna Dance? Full Member

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    If Roach get's his hands on Haye, he is the only HW around right now that can possibly get the job done IMO. Course, with him being a little 'chinny', Vitali can just as easily catch him and finish him off before Roach's plans take fold...
     
  4. Boxing Fanatic

    Boxing Fanatic Loyal Member banned

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    Still think VK is the king. His brother is beatable because he doesn't stand his ground when he is pressured probably because he knows he is chinny. Haye is gonna need all the help he needs to beat VK. Getting Freddie Roach coach is a good idea.
     
  5. threethirteen

    threethirteen Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No he's not - he got hit by 141 of 264 power shots - hardly a defensive genius. he was good at avoiding the jab. Vitali didn't look good because he didn't use any punch variety to catch Johnson when he was hot-dogging.

    Vitali did what he had to do, and I don't think he looked as bad as some people are making out. But it wasn't a vintage performance, and it's clear that he's slowed down somewhat.
     
  6. Casamayor122

    Casamayor122 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Klitschko landed more than half of his power punches despite Johnson's very good defense.
     
  7. TheGreat

    TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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    Honestly Wlad would beat the **** out of him if they ever decided to fight. I think Haye under Roach is gonna wear him out and I think Valuev could pose some problems for him as well, all he has to worry about is Vitali's right hand.
     
  8. TheGreat

    TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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    Johnson does NOT have good defense, I didn't see any footwork from him, in fact he was up against the ropes most of the night, Wlad would have left Johnson stretched out last week.
     
  9. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not really. VK landed very few clean due to Johnson minimizing damage. However, all together Johnson managed to land 5, clean or not clean.
     
  10. Casamayor122

    Casamayor122 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Haye and "wear him out" do not belong in the same sentence. 0 stamina.
    Haye throws around 140 punches over 12 rounds.
    Vitali threw 108 punches in 1 round (11th)
     
  11. Casamayor122

    Casamayor122 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Of course. I did not say that he landed them clean.
     
  12. TheGreat

    TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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    Most of his punches are arm punches, he doesn't commit to his shot but since the majority of the guys he is in with are fat and unheralded bums they usually get tired and TKO'd. Wlad and Haye on the other hand punch with bad intentions, these 2 leave opponents stretched out on the canvas.
     
  13. Boxing Fanatic

    Boxing Fanatic Loyal Member banned

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    Too many people are making a big deal out of this fight as they did with Haye vs. Valuev. It's only one fight, as the old saying goes, "Styles make fights." And they(styles) can break them, too as what happened with both fights.
     
  14. rainmaker

    rainmaker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Haye and "wear him out" do not belong in the same sentence. 0 stamina.
    Haye throws around 140 punches over 12 rounds.
    Vitali threw 108 punches in 1 round (11th)
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Doesn't mean a thing! Haye can take you out with 1 shot, Vitali cannot. Vitalli needs to land as many shots to take the fight away from his opponents. Haye knows out of 10 shots he may throw in a round, if 1 of them were to connect, it's good night. And I don#t want to hear any nonsense about Haye not having the power to KO VItali, because his power moved right up with him, he nearly dropped Valuev, he can drop Vitali. Vitali is well aware of that fact, so do not expect to see him try to throw so many punches in a round.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    To beat Vitali you need to take away his range and/or his tempo.