Is Vitali Klitschko an ATG?

I won't dispute that. I do think however, that for what he lacks in speed, he does make up for in reach, along with other things like accuracy. Also, while I agree that Tubbs and Holy may have been a tad quicker, I'm not so sure that the margin of difference was so terribly wide with the 30+ versions who Bowe met. It certainly isn't a taurtus vs hare comparison.

 

Top 100? Certainly not.

 

I would give an in form Golota a chance against either Klit ,their opposition might have been ,as you say highly rated ie magazine rated ,but they have been decidedly average in terms of quality imo, not the Ukrainian's fault, but true, as far as I am concerned.
I thought Vitali looked pretty underwhelming against an opponent [I won't call him a challenger], who at no time tried to win .
Obviously a champion cannot shine against a boxer firmly in survival mode, but Vitali's right crosses looked clumsy ,and he was uncharacteristically vulnerable to jabs.

 

It was the worst title defense he has made and he won every round overwhelmingly. This says a lot.

 

I agree. I think Golotas skills are underated. He is mentally as weak as they come but technically he wasnt all that bad, and when focused he wasnt all that bad, he just couldnt be in any type of really physical fight or he would fall apart. The Klitschkos wouldnt present that type of fight agaisnt him, so he might actually do well in a boxing match. He was big and had a decent jab and righthand.

 

No, I don't agree ,because his opposition was so abysmal ,which is entirely my point.
I like the Klits they are courteous ,sportsman ,allways in shape, intelligent and personable,it is not their fault there is no one around to test them accept each other .
But neither should we laud them for convincingly outpointing people who , having been given a chance at what was known once as the richest prize in sports, come into a boxing ring with no ambition to actually try and win .
Challengers of the calibre of
Ibragimov
Chagaev
Austin
Brewster
were average.
Arreola was 30lbs overweight
Rahman was 20 lbs overweight and 36 years old
Donald was 35
Kirk Johnson was 40lbs over weight.
Gomez was a past it cruiserweight at 36 ,again 30lbs overweight.
Sanders was a part time journeyman,who got lucky ONCE.
Williams was a journeyman , 40lbs over weight.
You do not fashion the legacy of an ATG from such dross, even if you dominate them,because it is expected that you should.
These men might have been rated challengers but to me they are journeymen in ability.
You can only beat what's there ,and should not be blamed for the paucity of talent, neither should you be praised for beating it.

 

Mendoza wrote:Originally Posted by Mendoza [url]

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Also, I challenge you to show me a fighter who has taken better direct bormbs on film and not gone down. The uppercut by Lewis and the hook to the side of the head by Sanders were KO shots that few recover from.

The question was for Price Peter. I have seen 1,000+ heavyweight fights on film. Few have ever taken harder shots and not gone down.

I want to see what Price Peter has to say here. Then we can check the films and judge for ourselves. The orgin of this reply was Prince Peter comment that Vitali's chin is greatly over rated. Price Peter is also wrong. Sanders never scored a knockdown. It was a shove down, and the flim backs this up.

 

So I am to believe it is by some accident that Vitali's last 8 opponents have a record of 232 wins versus 8 losses. So, with millions on the line for the sport's biggest prize, these were just the best of a horrible lot? Or would you prefer me to believe that he was ducking a potential 8 challengers whose combines record was 400-0?

 

Golota is overrated. He lacks a quality win over a top ten ten guy, and his best wins are partly due to fouls. Golota defeated Nicholson via TKO, but the ending was expedited by a blatant head but. Golota also beat Smason Pauha, though when he was in trouble he bite him to recover.

To suggest Golota who's power was over rated, and chin was over rated would beat either Klitischko is a long shot.

As for Vitlai's competiton its far better than Jack Johnson's and quite a few other champions. If you want to use Ali or Holmes, that's fine. Truth is, both Ali and Holmes looked worse vs lesser compeition than Vitali ever has.

 

Uh, McVey. Wlad and Vitali are not the same person. Sorry, that is just really annoying.

I must disagree. Contrary to opinion, I feel Lewis was a much more effective aggressor than Bowe when he chose to be; even against Vitali as shown below he was much more polished and dynamic when pushing the attack. I'd say a major factor in him squeezing out the win was his vicious dirty clinch work, digging to the body and of course worsening those cuts. Bowe was good at out muscling smaller men who were willing to engage on the inside but really couldn't do much against the big counter punching Gonzalez except walk him down with the jab from mid range and wildly bomb right hands over the top....worked in this instance eventually but pretty much what got him into so much trouble against Golota.


A great Bowe as an aggressor performance? Is Bowe really bringing more here than he did against Golota?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSRYs1ZUKiE[/ame]


Lewis's best round against Vitali.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIeGcSS_Kog[/ame]

 

Wills? You just showed your lack of boxing knowledge, after Ali he may have the best resume at this weight.

Jeffries twice? The guy was one of the first quality white heavyweights who fought the top black fighters he beat former linear champs Fitz and Corbett both twice. Beat Sharkey twice, Peter Jackson and Joe Goddard who was a good fighter. Sure he was larger then most of his opponents but that's not his fault and the same can be said about Vital, but at least with Jeffries you can claim he beat some great fighters Vitali hasn't even beaten any very good fighters.

Liston and Patterson have miles better resume then Vitali.
Floyd beat:
Ingo twice
Archie Moore (ATG)
Bonavena
Chuvalo
Machen
Tommy Jackson twice
Yvon Durelle
And quit possibly should have wins over Maxim, Ellis and Quarry. Vitali resume isn't even close to this, did you even think about the names you wrote?

Liston beat:
Patterson twice (ATG)
Machen
Nino Valdes
Zora Folley
Cleveland Williams twice
Marty Marshall
Added to the fact that Liston totally cleaned up the division when he got his title. Vitali has never cleaned up the division his bro is constantly fighting higher competition.

Even Dempsey who gets a lot of stick about his resume and most of the time right fully so beat:
Former linear champ Jack Sharkey
Tommy Gibbons (ATG)
Miske
Brennan
Gunboat Smith
Battling Levinsky
Carpentier
Firpo
Fireman Jim Flynn
Fred Fulton
Willard
Sure many of them are no better then the guys Vitali has beaten but he has yet to beat anyone who has done as much as Sharkey or as talented as Gibbons.

Fact is I don't believe there is a heavyweight who is regarded as an all time great with a weaker resume let alone five. Not to discredit Vitali he has done a lot three titles regains while only picking up two loses is impressive however his competition has not been.

 

Durelle, a poor middleweigh/light/h are you serious? Marty Marshall?-famous only for his Liston fights, Jim Flynn when Jack beat him-way past his beat which was average anyway, and beating old decrepid Jackson-these guys are names who were nothing when beaten by the fighters you mention.
I haven't read all this thread but Vitali is 38 years old...should be, IS, way past his best. He was poor against Johnson-simple as that.

 

Matt,

11 weeks ago, Vitali was excellent vs. Arreola. Unless you think an active fighter can hit the wall in 11 weeks, I think it was the style of Johnson, a minor cut which prevented Vitali from pressing for the TKO, and perhaps just an average night. I predict Vitali will look much better vs. Valuev, which is reported to be his next fight.

 

Mendoza, I rate VK an ATg. However Johnson, Arreola and Valuev are plain poor in any era. Vitali showed no left hand power, speed or inventivness against Johnson. No version of Valuev beats VK but nobody can convince me that his recent performances are impressive. I don't take this away from Vitali-he is 38 years old. Louis, without checking was about this whwn he lost to Rocky, Ali for Berbick, Johnson for Willard, Sullivan was younger for Corbett, Liston for Clay? Holmes for Tyson, and on and on. Vitali was a great fighter IMO and will beat most if not all, at the present time, but he is far from the fighter that fought Lewis. YOU CAN'T JUDGE HIS ALL-TIME RANKING ON HIS RECENT/CURRENT/FUTURE FIGHTS.

 

I think he was. Ive watched those fights a million times. There was definitely a difference in the demeanor and preparation for the Gonzalez fight which seemed to be the last time Bowe was actually motivated for a fight. Going into the first Golota fight, Bowe came down from over 300 pounds and openly said in the press, why do I have to train for bums?
The bombing overhand right would work well against a taller opponent who leans back, and Vitali like Gonzalez would have little defense for Bowe inside. I just cant see Vitali keeping the fight on the outside against a motivated well conditioned Bowe. I prefer to use the version of Bowe that faced Holyfield in the first fight or leading up to Holyfield, because that was an active, in shape hungry fighter, which was a big contrast from the fighter who showed little motivation after winning the title.