Where does Hopkins rank in terms of ATG fighters?

Bold and underlined; Quarry is much better than Pavlik, Tarver and Johnson. Debatable whether he's 'better' than Winky and Tito, but he's much harder a proposition at the higher weight than euther of them ever would be (as is Mike Quarry for ****s sake)

Just in BOLD: I agree.

For the record, I have Hopkins between 35-50 depending what mood I'm in. He gets bonus points for longevity and ability, though his resume doesn't have the 'Wow' factor that someone like Ezzard Charles would have. That's the difference between top 30-50 and top 10.

EDIT: Just looked back and see who you're debating with; 'Jack'; Hopkins is above Frazier, who himself is below Foreman. Frazier would be between 70-80 IMO, and at the latter end of the top 10 Heavyweights, itself not a 'packed' division in terms of sheer ATG's.

 

im curious who would be held as a higher ATG,

De La hoya or B HOP?

does B HOP make it top top 40 ATG??

i really like B HOP but im not to sure where i would rate him, maybe it becomes more clear when he retires

 

Hopkins. De La Hoya may have scaled more weights, but I feel his is just less impressive when you consider his 'key' performances. Great win over prime Trinidad (IMO) although he didn't close the show as an 'ATG' would've done.

Put it this way, the likes of Gavilan, Napoles and probably even Ike Williams (who was a Lightweight) would not have allowed Trinidad to see the final bell.

 

You speak the truth:good

 

Okay then!

Why is he better? He was a good counter puncher but absorbed a shocking amount of punches. I saw him in later years against Lorenzo Zanon (granted after a lay off) and he was getting hit like speedbag.

He has some "good wins" but under no circumstances should he be rated higher than championship level fighters who proved themselves and won big fights. Do you think Quarry was more skillful than Tarver for example. I could semi understand this crap if he came close to competing against Ali, Frazier and Norton but he was put through the meatgrinder in all five of these fights.

Watch Ali vs. Quarry II. Ali has to walk away from him because he's catching everything but the ring post!

 

I know you scurried off to boxrec to check that out mate but there is a lot more to it then that.

He was not bashed by Ali easily in both fights..The first fight was stopped on a cut.

He put on a very commendable performance against Frazier the first time out..again it was stopped on a cut.

He was not almost killed by Norton..he gave a decent account of himself considering how faded and out of shape he was..He was stopped on his feet and calmly walked back to his corner.

He was not knocked out clean by Chuvalo.

Obviously you havent seen these fights.

So why be so matter of fact about something you havent even cared to look into?

Winky and Tito were better and greater fighters then Jerry..thats why I removed them when quoting you. But even then both those fights have to be put into context, as both fighters werent at their best weight. As does the Johnson fight where quite clearly he wasnt the fighter he would become.

 

I'd have Hopkins in the top 30 of all time I think. I've never bothered to lock down a top 50 or whatever but my first instinct is that he wouldn't make the top 20.

I'd have him in my top 10 middleweights ever but I'm not sure exactly where, definitely not in the top 4 though. He reigned at 160 during a poor era and I think his standing has been improved greatly by what he's achieved since he moved up in weight.

 

Hopkins is higher and I'm a HUGE Oscar fan!

 

yeah, and who did Tarver beat/lose to??!?!? Bar his win over a way past-prime Jones, Tarver has nothing. Lost to Harding. I rest my case.

HOWEVER; the fact of the matter is he HAD beaten Jones in spectacular fashion and followed it up; Hopkins dissection of him is very impressive because Tarver was at the top of the division at that time.

But would he have been at the top of the division in say, the late 70's?!??! No, he would've been slaughtered by everyone.

You have to take the quality of the era into account; Both 160 and 175 were not exactly strong when Hopkins was dominating them. As I say, he gets kudos for doing so anyway, especially considering his advanced age.

Quarry may have been battered by the likes of Ali and Frazier (not killed as you say), but he was a small heavy in the strongest period the division has ever seen.

 

My sentiments exactlylol::good

 

Boxing rec? Horse ****!

I've collected these fights for years. You just don't like being outgunned!

Ali won all three rounds and took one decent body shot in the whole 9 minutes (AFTER A THREE YEAR AND A HALF YEAR LAY OFF).

I didn't say Jerry didn't perform well in the first Frazier fight which is why I MENTIONED THE SECOND FIGHT!

Have you seen Norton vs. Quarry. It's one of the most horrific beatdowns EVER. There was puss coming out his face and he looked like he was going to cry he'd been bashed about so much!

Chuvalo ****ed Quarry up and stopped him! I didn't mean that he literally knocked him out clean.

Do I still need boxing rec?

 

I've got him at 38.

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BOLD/UNDERLINED: Then why did you say:

KNOCKED HIM SPARK OUT!!! Or something to that degree. You'll fit in well on the General

 

I know I know!

I acknowledged it! Let's not let the fact that Quarry was stopped by Chuvalo none the less!

P.S I said clean out to emphasise the fact that he got battered. Apologies lol

 

This is quite a good list mate:goodWell done.

However, I wouldn't rank Myweather over Olivares and Spinks, and Griffith makes my top 35. These are minor niggles however, good attempt:good

I'm currently painstakingly debating with a very knowledgable poster on the placings in his top 100..........painful stuff