I have Ali, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson and Foreman above him. As in I think all these guys beat him! I think Joe should still be inside the top ten and was simply lethal on the night he beat Ali in 1971. ****in great performance considering what he had to walk through to get the win!
Poppycock. Frazier is over rated based on resume and accomplishment. The reason that he is rated so highly is because the of the legend of Ali and his determination. He is a top 20 all time heavyweight but has no business being ranked int he top 10. His resume is full of contenders and fringe challengers.
a resume full of contenders is a good thing though mate.. he is a clear top 10 heavyweight. h2h even better i feel.
Hell yes. One thing I always loved about Frazier was the way he could fight while an oppenent tried to tie him up, he would just slip right out of a clinch and unleash.
You do know he fought a prime George Foreman, right? Besides, Liston was finished by the time Frazier made his way to the top. Lyle never really estalished himself until '74 and Shavers until about '75/76, by which time Frazier was finished and on the verge of retirement.
LOL Sure I do but look what happened to him? Liston fought up until his death in 1970 and was on or around the top of the division before being knocked out cold by Leotis Martin. Frazier was kicking around then but rumour has it Yank Durham wanted nothing to do with the former champion! Lyle did establish himself in the mid seventies! Frazier was fighting then and ellected to bash Ellis and Quarry in replays! Shavers was maybe a little late but he was still a force and a known destroyer during Frazier's era!
Liston was avoided, avoidable, and beat only one top ten contender post Ali. There was no "steering", it just wasn't a fight to be made. Frazier took Quarry after his loss to Ali, top contender at the back of a big loss. By the time he matched Ellis, Young had eliminated Lyle from top-line contention.
Try to understand that that was a different era, where a loss wasn't the end of the world as it is today. Compare who Joe fought with whom Louis fought, Dempsey fought, Marciano fought, Holmes fought and if you are open minded, will see that that is an impressive list.
A potential Liston fight had no up side, after the Lewiston, ME debacle Sonny was looked at in a different light. As in when you throw a fight for the heavyweight championship of the world, most folks will not touch you with a 10 ft pole. Joe was at the end of his career in the mid 70s and was on his way up. To big of a risk vs. reward for Lyle. As for Shavers, he was getting KOed by Ron Stander, ****ING Ron Stander of all people, when Joe was on top. Sure Earnie came back with a 1st round KO of Jimmy Ellis, only to be KOed in 1 by Quarry! Sorry man, but I don't see a lot of logic to your thoughts.
Top 3. He ranks ahead of Louis, I think. I only have him behind Ali and Lewis in terms of head to head and achievements combined. 1. Ali 2. Lewis 3. Frazier 4. Foreman 5. Holmes 6. Holyfield 7. Louis 8. Marciano 9. Tyson 10. Liston