How do Lewis's losses affect his legacy? Do they have a big effect or does the fact that he was able to avenge them by stoppage negate the negative effect? Where do you have him in the ATG's at HW and where would he be if he'd not lost on those 2 nights?
I think they have little bearing on his career. He shouldn't have lost them, but that he was willing to rematch the guys who snotted him and beat them so convincingly is impressive. I think he's top ten. I think had he gone 46-0 he probably would have been critisised more.
I dont think it makes a massive difference, some may even say it puts him higher because he avenged his losses. But for me personally I feel he has to drop slightly down my ATG list as I feel he didnt take the fights seriously. Particuarly the Rahman fight in which he didn't train properly. But as he avenged them I still personally have him in my top 7 ATG heavyweight List
Top 10 HW of all time 1) Ali 2) Louis 3) Johnson 4) Tunney 5) Tyson 6) Foreman 7) Frazier 8) Walcott 9) Marciano 10) Lewis/ Holmes....toss up
Shows that if Lewis turned up unfocused and didn't take his opponent seriously enough he could be hit and hurt badly. However, same thing goes for Joe Louis. And Ali against Spinks the first time. At least the likes of Schmeling, Rahman and McCall appear to be of a higher calibre than Purrity, Sanders and Brewster. And at least those wins were avenged. What I'm saying is; many Heavyweight champions have suffered losses they probably shouldn't have suffered. Lennox's are not that substantial IMO due to him showing himself to be a far better fighter in other matches (especially the 2nd Rahman fight)
So you think jack Johnson and Gene Tunney would beat more fighters than Prime Tyson or Foreman?!?!?!?! F'n idiot; in terms of their eras they were **** hot, but Tunney is too undersized to compete with the likes of Tyson/Foreman. IMO, Dempsey would get smashed to bits by them as well. My top 10 Heavyweight list(mainly based on resume, also on ability/the performances they gave) 1-Ali 2-Louis 3-Lewis 4-Holmes 5-Foreman 6-Holyfield 7-Tyson 8-Liston 9-Marciano 10-Frazier Dempsey just didn't beat enough top guys IMO, and barely fought after beating Willard. Firpo proved himself to be no great shakes after that loss, and the losses to Tunney seem far more comprehensive than say, Holmes' losses to Spinks (I scored the 2nd fight to Holmes) Johnson just DOES NOT IMPRESS on film. When you consider he was considered a 'Giant' and was about 6'1 or something, you realise that he has to 'outbox' the guys we now know as Heavyweights. Whilst effective for his time, the likes of Burns and Ketchel were nowhere near as refined as say, Marciano (another smallish heavyweight) and the man who followed a few decades later (Louis) was more refined in the punching department than anyone that had ever fought (judging by what I've seen on film; there may have been a better puncher than Louis beforehand but I disagree that it's Fitz, who hit hard but even his form doesn't seem 'modern' in the admittedly grainy footage of his fight with Corbett) and would've starched even big, strong and tough Johnson, a supposed 'defensive genius' who I've ever seen clinching and winging in the occasional bomb. If you;d said 'resume' or 'dominance' then yes, the likes of Tunney would chart. But Head2Head, I think there are few fighters from before Joe Louis that would compete against more 'modern' Heavys.
They were bad losses but, as others have said, they were revenged.. But was his CV good enough, as he suggested in last month's The Ring, to justify a top 5 all time Heavyweight list? In my opinion, no but a top 10? Definitly He was certainly the best of his era BUT his era wasn't that good if we're being honest. I can't even find a case, as I can for Holmes, that he simply stifled any emerging talent, as I don't think anyone of the "up and coming" fighters he beat, such as Tua ot Grant, were that good anyway. Others may disagree with this but I think his best win actually is as a fat, uninterested 38 year old against Vitali Klitschko who, as we know, went on to co-dominate the rest of the decade. My top ten, by the way, looks like this, 1) Holmes 2) Ali 3) Louis 4) Johnson 5) Tyson 6) Frazier 7) Tunney 8 - Dempsey 9) Marciano 10) Lewis