Wladimir Klitschko DESTROYS Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Dec 16, 2009.


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  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Total population is an important factor. Obviously, I have no firm stats (though I've often recommended that Classic compile them). However...

    1) Greater average height in the industrialized and industrializing world thanks to improved nutrition

    2) Better communications and transportation technology gives promoters, gyms, and boxing fans better access to local talent, and local talent better access to top-flight trainers. Talent development, marketing, and the general organization of the industry (aside from its disunited belts, obviously) have improved. Top fighters simply have more resources at their disposal, recruiters have more resources to locate those fighters early, and they come from across a globalized world.

    3) The former Soviet Union is now open for business. Large, formerly untapped chunk of the 1960s-80s world talent pool.

    4) Are there any gym statistics that show that boxing's talent pool is significantly smaller in the US than it once was, other than the general idea that all of the talented Americans are in the NBA?
     
    cross_trainer, Dec 17, 2009
    cross_trainer, Dec 17, 2009
    #46
  2. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The talent pool in America is smaller, we have less good heavyweights from America.

    The talent pool in the East is now larger, as a result we have 2 Ukrainians now who could beat any pre-1980s HW.



    Why have there never been any worthwhile Western European HWs?
     
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 18, 2009
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 18, 2009
    #47
  3. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Are you seriously going to claim that fat ******* wasn't a supremely talented guy?

    If Henry Cooper could knock Ali down once in 2 fights, then Sanders with a bit of luck could take him early. Sure he loses 4 out of 5 fights to Ali (only due to conditioning and lack of schooling, but there danger is there and the talent is there.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 18, 2009
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 18, 2009
    #48
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    And stuffing that greater height into a smaller weight classes due to improvements in weight making technology/changes in weight-making rules. But so what? Rules are rules. If Sugar Ray Robinson is "matched" with Antonio Margarito (seen as an tall modern ww...listed by boxrec as being the same height as Sugar), surely they don't get to weigh in under their own rules? Either both will be drained and weighing around 149 or both will be given 24hrs and weighing around 153 and 158?

    Fighters in all weight classes have gotten taller, but I think weight-making is the single most signicant factor here, unless you're interested only in HW's. A 147lb man in the ring will be on average only a tiny bit taller than his 1940's counterpart. Modern HW's are taller.

    There needs to be. The number of boxing clubs is dwindling, and fast. The number of gyms is dwindling, and fast. The number of promoters is dwindling, and fast. The number of trainers are dwindling, and fast.

    Ken Buchanan could get top drawer training in his neighbourhood as a boy. Now? I don't know.

    There were less active boxing liscenses in the world in 2002 than there were in Britain at the end of the second world war. I understand things have picked up since then, but bottom line speaks loudest, USSR doesn't matter.

    Other than the above, I don't have any firm statistics. Nor do I have statistics for # of boxing gyms, # of boxing specific venues, just over and again anecdotal evidence that they are being shut down. Even Joe Frazier's gym was shut down.
     
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2009
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2009
    #49
  5. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    ha ha ha. are you serious? wlad isnt even the best fighter in his family. I do agree that he just about beats ali in a close points decision- but then again, ali is 67yrs old
     
    johnmaff36, Dec 18, 2009
    johnmaff36, Dec 18, 2009
    #50
  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    This is exactly the kind of stat I'm looking for. Do you have a source you could give me?

    (Cox's Corner once mentioned comparative numbers of boxing clubs in the US now and in the past, but I don't think he listed a source).
     
    cross_trainer, Dec 18, 2009
    cross_trainer, Dec 18, 2009
    #51
  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Aside from Schmeling and Ingo? My guesses would be:

    1) Not as popular there until recently

    2) WWII left them devastated while the US boxing industry was able to recover quickly due to the large captive market and number of people who boxed in the army

    3) By the time it became popular, Europe's greater income equality prevented the rise of the comparatively poor, marginalized areas that generally produce boxers. Most of them come from Eastern Europe, where the situation's still pretty tough.
     
    cross_trainer, Dec 18, 2009
    cross_trainer, Dec 18, 2009
    #52
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I originally read that in a newspaper article, but I do actually have a hard copy at the house. It's in War Baby.

    This content is protected
     
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2009
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2009
    #53
  9. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Excellent. Thanks, McGrain. :good
     
    cross_trainer, Dec 18, 2009
    cross_trainer, Dec 18, 2009
    #54
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No bother.
     
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2009
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2009
    #55
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Wladimir Klitschko beta, or Wladimir Klitschko 2.0, stable release version (® 2003 Kronk Inc.)??

    Ali circa Liston? RITJ? FOTC? Spinks?

    Details, CT!
     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 18, 2009
    IntentionalButt, Dec 18, 2009
    #56
  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Ali versus the versions of Klitschko from the second round of each of his last fifteen fights. That way, we keep swapping Klitschkos until Ali gets tired.

    On a more serious note, Ali from the Cleveland Williams fight vs. Klitschko from the Chagaev fight.
     
    cross_trainer, Dec 18, 2009
    cross_trainer, Dec 18, 2009
    #57
  13. dezbeast

    dezbeast Active Member Full Member

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    As much as I love Ali, I believe the most likely outcome is that Wlad decisions him. I don't think he dominates him though. I see the bout being fairly competitive.
     
    dezbeast, Dec 18, 2009
    dezbeast, Dec 18, 2009
    #58
  14. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Wlad can't go 15 rounds with Ali's output, speed, mobility. Ali's unbelievable reflexes. Even watch the Bugner fight when he's past his prime to see how he deals with speed himself. Ali will outbox the **** out of him. Sure Wlad jab might cause some trouble but Ali gets around it. Ali is superior in virtually every department except a jab and some power. Wlad is mechnical, robotic, and not aggressive enough. He needs to be aggressive, and if he tries to he will get countered. Ali probably TKO's him toward the later stages of the fight. Wlad stamina and ability to take punches whether in accumulation or one punch power has never been impressive. In a 12 round fight, Ali wins at least 8-4.

    Ali vs Vitali is even worse for than Wlad. Wlad stylistically should trouble Ali more (Although I see an Ernie Terrel type situation occurring. Except, Ali takes his opponent and his abilities even more seriously). Vitali can't and won't get off on 60's Ali. Not happening. He loses an embarrassingly one sided decision. In a 12 round fight it might go 10-2. In a 15 round fight maybe 12/13-2/3. So much for Vitali's win/loss round ratio.
     
    PetethePrince, Dec 18, 2009
    PetethePrince, Dec 18, 2009
    #59
  15. Brit Sillynanny

    Brit Sillynanny Cold Hard Truth Full Member

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    The idiot you are responding to doesn't know **** about boxing or anything else.

    The fool wears Joe Calzaghe jock straps and sees some comparative between Chris Byrd and Ali. Yeah, they are VERY SIMILAR punchers. :lol:
     
    Brit Sillynanny, Dec 18, 2009
    Brit Sillynanny, Dec 18, 2009
    #60
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