Ali-Liston I, II - fixed?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Trixie, Dec 20, 2009.


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  1. Trixie

    Trixie Active Member Full Member

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    I was having a discussion last night with a friend who is a casual boxing fan (loves Floyd Mayweather, thinks Haye is the next Ali, so, you know, very casual). Anyway, he had read a book and was arguing with me to the death, that Ali-Liston I and II were both confirmed to have been fixed.

    I admittedly do not know the intricacies of these bouts but am comfortable in saying that I believe 99.9% that Ali-Liston I was not fixed. I could however be talked into believing that the second fight was. Although I still do not believe that it was.

    What do the old and wise classic forum say on the matter? Thanks:happy
     
    Trixie, Dec 20, 2009
    Trixie, Dec 20, 2009
    #1
  2. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    neither were fixed
     
    ripcity, Dec 20, 2009
    ripcity, Dec 20, 2009
    #2
  3. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Liston was a bully who exposed himself as nothing more, mentally. Great fighter but that was his mentality and his strength and Ali ripped it away. I'm not saying it couldn't have been fixed, because the elements surrounding both parties were there but I think that's what happened. Liston was exposed psychologically.
     
    Boxed Ears, Dec 20, 2009
    Boxed Ears, Dec 20, 2009
    #3
  4. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think I remember that the Liston Group got a piece of Clay's earnings over some future fights if Clay won in fight #1.

    (contracts were written like that back then.....Braddock got a bunch of money off Joe Louis' fights)
     
    Longhhorn71, Dec 20, 2009
    Longhhorn71, Dec 20, 2009
    #4
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm satisfied II was fixed.

    One is far more debatable. The purses were with-held whilst an investigation was ongoing and there was a lot of circumstantial evidence, though nothing you could convict upon. I'd put it this way - if the fight had happened in 1900 and no film of the first fight existed most people today would be satisfied that it was fixed.
     
    McGrain, Dec 21, 2009
    McGrain, Dec 21, 2009
    #5
  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    IMO I was fine and 2 crooked.
     
    JohnThomas1, Dec 21, 2009
    JohnThomas1, Dec 21, 2009
    #6
  7. KTFO

    KTFO Guest



    ......and then a gorgeous elb came and took you away to Oz.
     
    KTFO, Dec 21, 2009
    KTFO, Dec 21, 2009
    #7
  8. MrSmall

    MrSmall Member Full Member

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    Jan 2, 2006
    no
     
    MrSmall, Dec 21, 2009
    MrSmall, Dec 21, 2009
    #8
  9. KTFO

    KTFO Guest

    'Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to this Show. Let's get ready to rumblllllleeeee!'
     
    KTFO, Dec 21, 2009
    KTFO, Dec 21, 2009
    #9
  10. flamengo

    flamengo Coool as a Cucumber. Full Member

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    Only one possible aspect of the second fight may have been crooked.. Liston.
    He turned it up in the first fight, refusing to get of his stool and looked ridiculous flailing around the canvas in the second bout. Perhaps he turned it up more-so, refusing to recieve the horrible beating that was to follow.

    Fixed???? Neither.
     
    flamengo, Dec 21, 2009
    flamengo, Dec 21, 2009
    #10
  11. KTFO

    KTFO Guest

    Wow, what a show. Brilliant performance.
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIY9T8zFjAI[/ame]
     
    KTFO, Dec 21, 2009
    KTFO, Dec 21, 2009
    #11
  12. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Liston came to win the first fight but got beaten fair and square.Fair enough.

    But Liston dogged it in the rematch and looked for the easiest way out possible.

    And to think some people rate Liston above the likes of Frazier and Marciano.They'd rather die than go out like that hence I'd favour both to beat Sonny on heart alone.
     
    young griffo, Dec 21, 2009
    young griffo, Dec 21, 2009
    #12
  13. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If you like Ali...then chances are...you'll say no to the fix question....both fights
    look to have a touch of Vince McMahon to them...
     
    RockyJim, Dec 21, 2009
    RockyJim, Dec 21, 2009
    #13
  14. boxerca

    boxerca Guest

    I think the second fight might have been fixed but it doesn't matter. Ali would've most likely beat him, like he did in their first fight.
     
    boxerca, Dec 21, 2009
    boxerca, Dec 21, 2009
    #14
  15. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The first fight certainly wasn't fixed. When his upstart challenger was blinded, Liston went right after him. Reportedly, he threw his shoulder out when reaching for his elusive target, and X-rays confirmed the injury.

    I believe the knockdown in the rematch was on the level. Larry Merchant saw it, and the back of Liston's head jerks back sharply on impact. At the outset of round three in Miami Beach, Sonny was nearly dropped to a knee by a similar blow before getting driven back to the ropes. If Ali had immediately gone to a neutral corner, Liston would have likely beaten the count. (He told his wife that the knockdown was legitimate, but that it wasn't a knockout punch.)

    Personally, I don't think the outcome in either bout was prearranged on Liston's part, but there's plenty of room for dissent from that view, and I have no great quarrel with arguments to the contrary.
     
    Duodenum, Dec 21, 2009
    Duodenum, Dec 21, 2009
    #15
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