Marciano's Thoughts on Sonny Liston

:huh

 

Foreman
Shavers
Lewis
Tua
Ruddock

 

Guys Liston fought with a broken jaw and did not quit and he took the bombs of Cleveland Williams and did not quit ... He quit as an old man against a lightning fast Ali in a fight he was poorly prepared for against an opporent that was a stylistic nightmare .. to say Rocky, with a completely advantageous style makes him quit is fantasy. I'm fairly sure if your last dollar was on the line you would not bet it on Rocky in such a match up ...

Holyfield, a boxer puncher with an iron chin as a poor stylistic match up favoring Tyson ? I always felt goin in the question was that Evander was shot not a bad stylistic match up ..

 

Louis overweight :huh

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Old he was, but he wasn't overweight and he wasn't shot. He was still beating everyone except for the great Charles. A solid contender and he stood 6'2 214lbs. Marciano had no trouble with it.

True, but that's merely a wingspan measurement. Cleveland Williams, at 6'3" and 80" has the longer reach on film.


Apart from that: you (and/or some other people) are saying that Marciano is not proven against a 220+lbs, ranked heavyweight. Okay. But what about Liston? I don't see any rated heavyweight over 210lbs that he beat.


And he definitely DID have extreme power. How many heavyweights have more than 2 one-punch knockouts against rated opponents? How many boxers, any weight class, stopped every single contender he met? Marciano is one of the most dangerous punchers ever, there's no question.

 

Knocking out cab drivers, ole men, middleweights, light heavywieghts, and ole light heavyweigts, does not qualify Marciano as having extreme power for a heavyweight.

He didn't.

Marciano fought in a very weak era of Heavyweights. So, that he KO'ed a string of BUMs, STIFFs, Tomato Cans, and Ole Men is not indicative of his "extreme" power.

Tiger Jack Fox KO'ed an in-his-prime Jersey Joe Walcott in 8 rounds. It took Marciano 13 rounds to KO a *39* year ole Walcott.

Nino Valdes KO'ed Don Cockell in 3 rounds, Kitione Lave KO'ed Cockell in 2 rounds, but it took Marciano 9.

Walcott KO'ed Charles in 7 rounds but it took Marciano 8 rounds to KO a 3 year older Charles.

The notion that Marciano's power was "extreme" is nothing more than a modern myth.

 

Louis was 212 for Marciano, ten over his best weight. In addition, his muscle mass was significantly lower than in his prime. Louis was not fat by any means but far from prime from a skill or physical standpoint.

A great puncher at cruiser, without question. An all time great, in Liston's league, no ..

 

I would bet some money (Not my last dollar. Who would for anything) considering the odds. I'm sure you think Frazier has a good shot against Liston. Why? Because of the weight made up in difference? Rocky perhaps was physically stronger than Frazier anyway. I only allude to Frazier because there seems to be an idea he can take superheavyweights but it's impossible for Rocky. I just think this distinction is a little too inconsistent. Liston's reach and height would all be a disadvantage from Rocky and the type of fight he would try to make it. And realistically, Liston was in his prime only about 20 pounds heavier, not 30. I honestly would pick Rocky in this fight because I don't think he gets Koed or stopped, and I think the fight goes the long haul in which he wears Sonny down. I think he knew he saw something in Liston that he could expose. Also, this may be the first time that Rocky is as fast if not faster in foot and hand speed. Rocky is used to go against faster opposition. For what it is worth, Liston was not very fast.

 

No, Louis was bulkier and slower with age. He might have not been as lean due to the age and bulk. Obviously not a prime weight, but fighter's generally go up in weight as they get older. This is sometimes not a case of getting fatter, but putting on some muscle. So you're wrong about the significantly lower muscle mass comment.

 

Might I suggest that Liston was game and focused as long as the title was outside his grasp, like many champions.

If Liston was the champion rather than the challenger then Marciano's chances would improve considerably.

 

You have a point there. In Marciano's favour, I'd say the reverse is not true.

 

Tua and Ruddock...but no Cooney.

:think

 

That list was just off the top of my head.

I have no problems with Cooney being considered among the top tier of HW punchers...

 

Two great points.