Tyson Above Holyfield - Can It Be Justified?

I agree with that. Even though I wouldn't necessarily rank Tyson above Holy myself at HW, I would say I can understand how someone would, although p4p, I think Holy is obviously greater because of his prior achievements. Bronze medalist Olympian at LHW, undisputed and undefeated CW champion, then 4-time HW champion. The guy really railed against the odds. I'm sad to see him still around though, for hopefully obvious reasons.

 

and tyson did not use elbows ?
and hopkins did not use both elbows and headbutts and pushing , clinching , throwing , whatever you like ?

who did not ? tyson ? sure , everyone at 5'10" can weigh a trim 217lbs .

 

Holyfield has a better signature win against Bowe which really trumps Tyson's top win at HW but when you look at Tyson's body of work, consistency and dominance (as in far removed from his peers) the edge goes to Tyson.

I personally rank Tyson ahead.

p4p a case for Holyfield can be made given his CW reign but in terms of strictly work he did at HW, the edge is Tyson.

 

Here goes-

Tillman-

Holyfield KO7 in 1987... Holyfield dropped him 4 times. Tillman had beat Tyson twice in the amateurs a few years earlier and was much better vs. Holyfield than vs. Tyson

Tyson KO1 in 1990... Tyson crushed him

Tillis-

Holyfield KO5 in 1988... it was Holyfield's first fight at HW and 19th overall. Not a bad 1st fight at HW.

Tyson W10 in 1985... it was Tyson's 20th fight and 1st decision win.

Thomas-

Holyfield KO7 in 1988... Holyfield's 2nd fight at HW. Thomas had fought Tyson in his previous fight the year before. Not a bad 2nd fight at HW.

Tyson KO6 in 1987... a prime Tyson

Stewart-

Holyfield KO8 in 1989 and W12 in 1993... Holyfield dominated him in both

Tyson KO1 in 1990... Tyson crushed him

Douglas-

Holyfield KO3 in 1990... Douglas was way out of shape

Tyson LKOby10 in 1990... Tyson got his ass handed to him

Holmes-

Holyfield W12 in 1992... Holmes had won 6 fights in a row including a dominating performance vs. an undefeated Mercer.

Tyson KO4 in 1988... Holmes had not fought in 2 years or won a fight in 3. He thought little of Tyson and paid for it.

Lewis-

Holyfield D12 and L12 in 1999... most felt Lewis won the 1st fight but a lot of people felt that Holyfield won the rematch. A past prime Holyfiled vs. a prime Lewis in both of these fights.

Tyson LKOby8 in 2002... Tyson was well past his prime

Savarese-

Holyfield W10 in 2007... Holyfield (44 at the time) dropped him twice in a dominating performance

Tyson KO1 in 2000... Tyson crushed him

With that said... the common "wins" don't mean much to me.

Head to head Holyfield is 2-0 vs. Tyson. Both men were past prime when they fought, not just Tyson. Prime vs. Prime? I'd still take Holyfield.

I can't see putting Tyson above Holyfield.

Did Tyson punch harder? Sure, but that's not everything.

 

I dont think it can be justified. Tyson was an explosive knockout puncher. Holyfield was a smaller less powerful fighter of course the outcomes of their fights were going to be different.

Both great fighters, but who had less to fall back on? Who had to use more will, determination and savvy to win fights and ulitimately who accomplished more?

I believe Holyfield proved more against a higher caliber of fighter overall but both have impressive legacies in their own right.

 

Rating Tyson over Evander as a Heavyweight is reasonable I guess. But rating him above Holy in a pound for pound list is insane. Evander was the much more accomplished fighter aswell as beating him twice.

 

We need to stop giving credibility to the worthless santioning mobs and their equally worthless trinkets. Evander has only had two legitimate HW title reigns.

 

I see where you are coming from but you can't ignore his 3rd reign as a HW titleist.

He beat Tyson for the WBA belt (who had also won the WBC belt but vacated it). He also beat Moorer for the IBF belt.

Sure, Lewis was proclaimed WBC champ and even "technically" picked up the honor as "Lineal" champ with his win over Briggs (because Briggs somehow got the decision over Foreman).

IMO, when Holyfield beat Moorer he was the #1 HW at that time (or he at least had more claim as the true HW champ) especially since it was 4 months before Lewis beat Briggs. It takes more than a win over (shouldn't have won vs. Foreman) Briggs to become #1.

Holyfield vs. Lewis I was no doubt for the HW World title.

 

I agree 100%. I rank Holyfield higher based on their head to head matchups as well as Holy's longevity.

Tyson always has that "youngest HW champion ever" status and he was a more exciting, dominating fighter but his peak was too short & you can't rank according to "coulda, woulda, shoulda."

 

yep, tyson had everything to rank among the very best ever, up there with the ali, louis etc. but the he didnt have the discpline to sustain is greatness. that is the difference between tyson and holyfield. one guy underachieved the other one overachieved.

 

Moorer beat Holyfield
Foreman beat Moorer
Briggs beat Foreman
Lewis beat Briggs

In no way does Holyfield's victory over Tyson interupt the lineage of the title Lewis won from Briggs. That's all there is to it...

 

Sam McVea managed it before steroids existed.

 

It is ridiculous to recognize Foreman as the legitimate HW champ when Briggs "beat" him in 1997.

Foreman hadn't fought any top contenders in the 3 years since he legitimately won the title. Winning the title doesn't give one an indefinite claim to champion. That's the whole point of title defenses. A champion is supposed to defend his title against top-notch opposition to reaffirm his place as champion.


The truth is that there was no universally recognized champ between the time Foreman made it clear he wasn't going to fight top opposition (and for all intents and purposes vacating his claim to HW champ) and Holyfield-Lewis I. But during that period, Holyfield had as strong a claim as anyone.

 

Thing is Lewis has beaten Tysons oponents far more easyer then Tyson!

 

Plenty of athletes weigh that much at that height. Just look at the NFL.

And it doesn't take a genius to see why Tyson weighed what he weighed. He was 190 pounds as a homeless 12 year old. Almost 20 inch neck, butcher block back, and huge thighs.

Now, he may have used roids to help recover from prison, and his body did look somewhat different from his pre-prison days. I'll leave that up for debate. But for his initial professional run, his body looks very natural. He was known to not even lift weights at this point.