Marciano's Thoughts on Sonny Liston

Lous clearly had a paunch in that fight. He was comparably big to Liston, but Liston had more reach and a little more natural weight.

If you go back to my original post, I was saying that I was one of those who thought Maricano would have a good chance, maybe even the be the favorite against Liston. All I was saying is that Marciano would be facing a bigger quality fighter than he had ever faced, so its hard to say.

 

:goodthe answer

 

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Larry Holmes told me many times that no one ever hit him like Shavers and that to this day he still remembers the shot in nightmares. He said Shavers hit much harder than Tyson. Cobb said no one ever hit him harder than Shavers. Lyle said he hit much harder than Foreman. Norton said Shavers hit harder than Foreman. Ali said no one ever hit him harder than Shavers.

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I know you are trying to build up the Rocky power bit but please doing so at the expense of Earnie Shaver's power diminishes your credibility. Let some of the kids here make such claims as they clearly don't know better but your no kid and you should.

Not rating him as a fighter, just a puncher. Not beating guys does not mean your power is not legit but that your overall skill set is not there.

Late in a fight is a different matter. Foreman and Shavers tended to tire as most huge punchers did. The Dempseys, Marcianos and Fraziers had the extra gear and that is to their credit. It does not mean they hit harder. If we are going to discuss all late , great power how about Mike Weaver who crushed two huge, talented guys late, Tate and Coetzee, with devastating shots in the 15th and 13th rounds. I'll put those KO's over any late shots by Dempsey, Marciano or Frazier. Both Tate and Coetzee were huge, extremely talented guys who had never been stopped and were in their physical primes. Neither was ever the same again. Weaver ruined them.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la41LzOJXcU[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IapXt6cNrOM&feature=related[/ame]

 

Oh I am well and truly sold on Shavers power.

Everybody he fought seems to say the same thing.

At least three common oponents between him and George Foreman say that he hit harder.

Liston and Marciano never fought a common oponent which is a shame because it could have happened given the timelines.

 

Look, I understand Bummy saying he did not KO this guy or that but that does not mean his power was the issue. Against Quarry he went kamakazi and got clocked early by an outstanding counter puncher with an iron chin. Does that mean Chuvalo, who stopped Quarry hit harder than Shavers ? Of course not. I never saw the Stander or Stallings fights but I'm sure they followed the pattern of a poorly trained Shavers punching himself out as he did early in his career at times. I did see Mercado and Cobb and both were losses to age as much as anything else as Shavers was pretty much past his best and in his mid-thirties at the time.

If I use Bummy's argument than I guess Turpin hit harder than Marciano.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VsAhEugnsc[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfQ56hSXGV0[/ame] see 9:40 or so in ...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vns_JUaVQls[/ame] see 4:50 or so ...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUWy4FtdpwI[/ame]

 

Are we suppose to take Walcott's words that Marciano hit harder than Joe Louis, or how one sparing partner of both Louis and later Marciano, said that Marciano hit harder than Louis did with 5?

 

Regarding Shavers, the point remains that if you lasted 5 you were most likely out of danger. He did not carry his punch well into later rounds. Perhaps if Liston or Marciano went kamikaze crazy at the opening bell and shot their wad by 5 they would be considered more powerful, but their record would look as mediocre as Shavers'.

 

I would/do. I think Louis had the better timing and accuracy, but as far as brute power I think Marciano takes it. Eitherway they could both hit like a mule could kick.

 

Watch the Walcott segment on The Way it Was and draw your own conclusions ... to me I read it as Walcott was put on the spot and tried to gracefully avoid ruffeling any feathers ... I happen to think Louis was a much bigger puncher, just my opinion.

 

I don't think he was the bigger puncher, but I think he was the better puncher. His punches were sharper and he had superb timing and placement, which is what IMO really hurt the people. When Marciano hit you, most of the time you saw the punch comming, and it still knocked you out or badly hurt you. When Louis hit you, you never saw the KO punch, and the punches you don't see truly do hurt you the most.

 

Most common oponents gave Marciano the nod.

The only one who said that Louis hit harder was Rex Layne who the older Louis had knocked out in an exhibition.

Also I tend to upgrade a knockout artists power if his technique isn't all that good. With Louis you can chalk some of it up to his delivery while in Marciano's case there was really only onbe thing to atribute it to.

 

Well in Layne's case, he didnt rember much once Rocky landed that right hand, he was out cold.

 

I do to. Delivery plays a huge part of a KO. Marciano did have very good delivery, but Louis's delivery was in a new league.

 

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People confuse power and punching as being synonymous. There are two different things. Great power and placement makes it lets out. But a great puncher has timing and accuracy. This is why Joe Louis is the best punching HW (Probably). But he's certainly not the most powerful one. Marciano, Shavers, and Foreman have more raw power.