Marciano's Thoughts on Sonny Liston

Didn't you make it? Very good video either way.

 

Well, apparently Marciano's contemporaries thought differently. Now who should I believe, Ed Fitzgerald and Archie Moore or you?

 

LOL great work Chris...I know you been busy but looking forward to some of your other work

 

So Bummy and Chris now make an argument that Rocky is on par with Johnson from a defense standpoint .... Next he can outjab Liston ..

 

I have to disagree.

Marciano had some subtlties that were not imidiately obvious.

He was a pressure fighter but he threw out feints like confeti. He feinted with both his hands and his feet and the fact that his arms were abnormaly short made them like propeller blades to other heavyweights. They just couldn't tome those T rex arms.

Marciano was not a stupid fighter by any means. He knew his limitations and knew that he could only win one way, but he almost made a science of swarming.

 

Lets put it this way.

If Marciano had been born with the physical atributes to be a technical boxer he would have been a fine one.

Nature didn't make him that way so he had to be the best 67'' span swarmer he possibly could be.

The man was not a neanderthal by any means.

 

I agree with the gist of what you are saying, but i disagree that he was not a fine technical boxer.

In fact (and this will create some outrage), i think he was the finest technical boxer that ever lived. I think the video that was posted shows this to a large extent.

It is not the slipping and ducking, which many all time greats also do, but it is the fact that his hands are always in the correct position when he does so, when he counters, his footwork is correct, his body is behind every punch, and when he hits, his hands are in position to defend himself. I cannot think of another fighter who does this as consistently. Definitely not Ali, who drops his hands, Johnson tends to do so also (even though he is defensively better due to styles), Tunney dances well, but has to rest with hands lower when at a distance, Wlad uses a good high guard lately, but he clinches and panicks when under pressure, Vitali isnt even close and often arm punches. The list goes on and on, I really cant think of anyone whose style is straight out of the text book like Marciano.

Sure marciano doesnt jab or dance, but he throws every punch the way it is supposed to be thrown. When he defends, he defends the way you are supposed to defend, hands up and slip, parry or duck, looking to respond with a counter. He takes punishment more than others because he so offensive in his approach and he needs to fight up close. He doesnt triple jab, because he needs to keep the fight in close instead of establishing a longer range where he is more vulnerable than the other fighter due to a short reach.

That is smart fighting. He knows the most important things and always does them. Always. Firstly come into the ring in shape, he always did. Put your body behind every punch. He did. Always keep your hands up, he did. Know when to retire, he did.

Make no mistake, Marciano never lost a fight because he was technically proficient, extremely smart, very disciplined.

I wait with interest to see anyone find footage of a fighter that didnt drop their hands, always put their body behind punches and was generally technically correct with everything they did.

 

That's what janitor was saying.

What he meant by saying technical boxer was being an outboxer/stick and mover etc. etc.

 

Janitor, agreed ...

 

Now you are twisting words...Marciano was a deadly puncher with phenomenal Stamina,will, Balls and Killer instinct. No he is no Jack Johnson on defence but if Johnson had some of Rockys gifts he may not have to be so defensive. I think The Chonski KO loss made Johnson more of a defensive fighter, just as the Sanders fight made Vlad a bit more defensive. The point here is Charley Goldman taught Rocky defence( as you can see him on the attack vs Moore) and he slipped and countered very well. Rocky was far from a crude slugger. Chris did a great Job at making that video and had the astute boxing mind to bring out the subtle defensive moves of Marciano while on attack.

 

I am a very Big Marciano fan and you explained very well most of the reasons why...I also loved his heart and ability to recup but from a boxing point of view you nailed it down

 

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While this is purely speculation on my part, I always thought Moore was a little bitter after his defeat. He chased Rocky for years and accused him and his people of ducking. Getting beat down like that must have been hard to accept. The "strength" quote is interesting though considering Moore fought some huge powerful men in his day.

Joe Walcott also had great things to say about Marciano's more subtle defensive techniques if anyone wants to dig them up. Basically echoes LaStarza's comments.

 

Absolutely. I would give Moore's comments more weight if they didn't contradict every other Marciano opponent. In this case, he was the exception, not the rule as Nay-Sayer not so cleverly tried to present.

And Archie really never seemed to fond of Marciano to being with. Moore calls Rocky out and proclaims it the only fight he really wants.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMYnbBY0nAI[/ame]

 

Moore was very bitter ... look at the hoops he had to jump through in his career ... Moore also said years later that Burley was the best he ever fought ... he said "THEY always want me to say Marciano so I do but it was not true." Archie was a man of his time and still had to humor the white man. Look how old he was in that clip. He was a middle aged man for god's sake ...