Actor on set of Big Boss confirmed a fight with Bruce Lee with a thaiboxer

i agree but it is fun to wonder

 

Seconded.

Then again, Dioxippus has a verified Olympic gold under (worse than) MMA rules. Bruce...does not.

 

Lewis believed that he was a great theorist and a so-so fighter. Kinda like the Cus D'Amato of martial arts, only much tougher physically. Several champions apparently worked with him but didn't spar.

I'm not questioning Bruce's MA credentials. He was a great martial artist. The question is whether he could beat a guy who's proved himself repeatedly in full-contact competition against the best in the world, and I don't see the evidence. :huh

 

To truly understand Lee you have to dismiss any correlation between his scripted movie footage, and his actual fighting philosophy. I know there is some hinting here and there, but you must realize there was a story to follow. Lee wanted to make money as an actor. Lee wanted to fix what was wrong with traditional martial arts as a teacher.

Lee's innovations were very advanced to his immediate peers. Lee stressed more realistic fighting simulation, such as sparring over forms. Lee had no urge to perform in competition, because competitions were subject to rules. There are no ways of trying Lee's principals without it taking place regulation free.

Lee's emphasis was on intercepting the opponents attack. Intercepting the opponent's attack may be with a finger jab to the eye, followed by a throat strike if the opening were provided. The interception may involve a side kick to the knee, followed by the throat or eye shot(s).

There were no ways to freely practice Lee's teachings in a controlled setting. MMA competitions would only provide certain situational aspects. BJJ grappling would be quite a hindrance if Lee's initial techniques failed.

Lee's style was not based on two combatants facing off in an mma match. His style may have evolved even faster if given the chance.

Martial arts styles have always tried to deal with matters of circumstance. Many arts limit the number of circumstances possible. Jeet Kune Do attempted to encompass all. Jeet Kunde Do is held back because of the limits its original master had yet to reach beyond. Lee had not faced bjj, for example. Part of me wishes that Helio and Lee could have crossed paths.

I am really drunk right now, and can't complete my post as I would like.

My apologies.

 

if you beleive the article above, how could a man who could knock someone against a wall with a one inch punch have "questionable power?"

 

Dynamite Kid, you're obviously a huge fan of Lee, but BJ would **** his **** up. Magic doesn't exist...just training and fighting to become great. Lee was a movie star, not a fighter.

 

I've mentioned this before on other forums when people criticize Lee's punching on the heavybag.

Aside from the fact that you cannot judge a person's whole set of skills based on one particular piece of footage, I also have to mention that Lee was a big fan of Jack Dempseys - even wrote to him asking for his autograph - and the footage is identical to how Dempsey punched on the heavybag in some footages.

Do your own research if unconvinced.

Also, I've briefly had a scan of the thread and I want to also mention that Lee getting choked out by Gene LeBell is bull****. Not even LeBell mentions that story and I've met Lebell and he's one of the most gregarious don't give a **** what I say kinda guys out there. He's said some things about picking Bruce up and not letting him go in a playful manner, so choking out someone like Lee and him not saying anything about it is rather unlikley.

However, I have heard rumours that he did choke out Steven Seagal. Though I think that's also just a rumour also.

 

As usual in these kind of threads, there's a whole bunch of half-truths and outright falsehoods regarding Lee's story.

As for sparring, I've spoken to another student of Lee's - Ted Wong - and he's mentioned that Norris did spar with Lee, and Lee left him 'red-faced'. This is an eye witness account.

And remember, even Mike Stone, another of Bruce's first pro martial arts students, once said that egos in the martial arts community goes a long way, and it has to be protected even with some revisionist history. He mentioned this when asked why guys like Lewis and Norris said they never sparred with Bruce, when he knew they did.

Guys like Joey Orbillo and James DeMille, who both have extensive boxing backgrounds, have also mentioned that even when they went to knock Bruce's head off for real they could never get him he was so fast in his movements, and whenever they attacked, they were left opposed and Bruce would flick them around the ears or just tap them on their foreheads. Or rest with a 'peacock knuckle' under their throats or into their necks, as Ed Hart, a known street fighter once recounted.

 

People who use the movie star/ actor line always come across as rather ******ed simply because it shows a complete lack of knowledge about the subject matter.

 

Please do some research, he was both

 

As for the BJ Penn vs Bruce Lee fantasy fight, well, it's just that. But for me, the whole bunch of 'what if' questions are rather dull and pointless because of the simple fact that both are from different arenas of combat, and from different times separated by about 3 decades.

The fact is though, Bruce trained to fight for no rules. BJ Penn does not. It's that simple.
In the ring, you have to favour Penn. Outside of it, I'd favour Lee.

But one has also to consider that Penn has the advantage of over 30 years of martial arts progression - whether in technique or training method etc etc...and Bruce was pretty much on his own in his experimentation and advancement of the martial arts. What is ironic is the fact that modern day Mixed Martial artists have benefited enormously from the progressive ideas that Bruce Lee was bringing to the fore - over 30 years ago.

 

I wouldn't put too much into Bruce's early foray into boxing, given that it was a schoolboy's tournament in Hong Kong. And to call it amatuer boxing is really giving it too much credence since it was basically any schoolkid who wanted to lace up the gloves and go and fight the next door's school.

Gary Elms was the King George V's champion, apparently and had been for a few successive years. Bruce beat him shortly after taking up wing chun. Bruce was still a novice at this time and I'm doubtful that he even had boxing skills at this point - some fighting skills maybe.

Last I heard was that Elms is in the UK and was in jail. This was back in the mid 90s. No one has ever interviewed him to my knowledge. But one guy who was there...Ralf Klausnitzer, has spoken of the fight previously.

 

Exactly. Good points. It baffles me that anyone would think there would be actual fighting footage of Lee floating around. It was completley different time when techology didn't mean a camera on every mobile phone and CCTV was recording your ass 24/7.

 

I know this is a discussion forum, but this thread is totally pointless. Some people will vehemently defend Bruce Lee no matter what, and when pressed to find out what their evidence is for his skills beyond the silver screen, it is always of the form..."well, I knew a guy who said he knew someone who once sparred with a guy who had seen Bruce once". The opposite applies too, those who seem desperate to discredit him cite the fact that there is no evidence of his true abilities, if that is the case then give it a rest - there is nothing to compare and it is all just meaningless conjecture.

No one here can say how good Bruce was, or how he would fare with today's techniques, there is simply no real concrete evidence and far too much speculative evidence. It is simply impossible to make a fair judgement. The absolute most we can say is that he was well trained and perhaps physically gifted, but as we learn time and time again in boxing, the intangibles make it almost impossible to tell the truth until someone is truly tested. How many boxers have been touted as the next big thing and then only to be found to have a 'glass jaw' or quit on their stool becuase it all got too much? We still get it wrong when we have access to almost all the footage we want, what makes us think we are going to get it right when there is no more than a few seconds of fuzzy sparing to go on?

 

because I question the peoples assessment of him. it's always romanticised. they assessed him in a time where his words were mainstream and gospel. others didn't have the same platform as him. he was great at publicising himself, i give him credit for that. it's only until recently that most of people i know thought seagal, van damme etc were the best fighters in the world. the introduction of mma has helped dispel alot of myths.

plus, from the videos i've seen of his one inch punches, they look good but i could knock people back into chairs with short/one inch punches.