Actor on set of Big Boss confirmed a fight with Bruce Lee with a thaiboxer

Find out what JKD is and then answer that question yourself.

Every single MMA fighter is training JKD every day.

 

No. I think most of the board should be able to agree that proven MMA disciplines (and MMA itself as a discipline) obviously beat other disciplines, all things equal. This is what UFC 1 was about.

There are lesssons to be learned from the evolution of MMA that can help us in our judgements here. UFCs 1-4 showed that it is almost impossible to beat someone in a fight if they are a good brazilian jujitsu practitioner and you have little to no training in defense against brazilian ju jitsu. Now, at the top levels of MMA, even the worst of the worst ground fighters have experience defending themselves on the ground. Lee probably had none.

We also learned from early UFCs that most of the fancy **** you see in movies that looks awesome doesn't work in real combat situations. Effective Westernl boxing/kickboxing and Muy Thai became the dominant striking arts because they worked when the fancy movie stuff didn't. I'm not saying that JKD is about 360 kicks or whatever, I'm just saying that we learned movie techniques work in movies, and how well they work in movies clearly had no effect on how well they worked in a NHB situation.

Later we came to see that (though, this should have been obvious) even the most skilled of the skilled fighters on the planet can lose to another guy who is nearly equally skilled but bigger and stronger. Penn is an extremely gifted athlete (I know the discussion may have moved from Penn a bit, but I just want to reiterate) at 155 lbs while Bruce weighed 135? We shouldnt even be talking about him against Penn, when Torres , Faber, or Aldo would be fairer comparisons.

 

Cross training is not JKD.

Hand trapping? Groin strikes? Side on stances? Wing chung techniques?

 

Not going to answer until you read up on JKD.

 

Bull****. If you want to say "Everyone trains in my martial art because all my martial art is everything that is awesome mixed together" then your martial art is nothing at all. It's just a word.

But ****, I guess if Georges St. Pierre is a JKD fighter and not a wrestler I must have been viewing him wrong. I wouldn't say Anderson is a Muy Thai fighter, JKD is probably more right on. Shinya Aoki is a jujitsu fighter you say? I think JKD is a more accurate description of what he does too.

atsch

Pretty much every mixed martial artist out there today is ACTUALLY training in some capacity in wrestling and ground fighting, btw.

 

Philosophy is different from practice.

Either that or the term JKD is brutally redundant.

 

MMA is evolving but Bruce doesn't even have the skills of a B class fighter. He hasn't got the skills of a Kenny Florian.

He did study alot of arts but he still just looked like a striker. He did study alot of arts but it didn't make him look invincible.

 

Rubbish, the guy was on TV and on the movie screens. He was mainstream and well known so his words would be taken well. Just like (until very recently) people worshipped Seagal, Van Damme etc

Bruce dedicated himself to martial arts and improving himself physically. It was impressive but not impressive enough to beat a BJ Penn. Let's make sure we keep things in perspective.

I know alot about Bruce. I'm not just spouting off **** and making my mind up on a single video etc I've been watching and reading about Lee for years.

I like the new line from the Lee fanatics. They argue that we don't know him or understand him.

 

I really don't think you're even attempting to read the subtleties of what I'm writing.

Dan Inosanto.

The reason i mentioned him is that he is considered a legend in the martial arts field. That he still considers Bruce Lee as his sifu ie, his teacher and senior, after all this time, and with what he knows, is something to be considered in terms of respect. To put it in the most basic of terms, the respect that Guro Dan has from other legends of martial arts, which includes MMA guys btw, stems from the knowledge he himself gained from Bruce Lee. Do you see what I'm getting at? And I could so easily have mentioned the likes of Bruce's students Chuck Norris, Mike Stone, and Joe Lewis, if you think people with fight records are the only ones to be considered as fighters.

And it isn't like the case of Cus D'Amato or other famous trainers and their fighters, Bruce Lee was a trainer who trained with his students. He didn't sit them down in a classroom ffs, but went toe to toe to teaching them skills and techniques. It was practical training...Cus and Angelo didn't lace up the gloves and sparred with their fighters or go on runs for example. That's the basic difference most people are not getting. Martial arts training, especially with guys like Norris, Stone or Lewis were practical, not theoretical. These guys have huge fighter egos, and going for training and learning how to fight from a guy who couldn't is just ****ing ludicrous. The fact that they did go to someone without a fight record, a little Chinese guy who didn't enter competitions, takes a huge plate of humble pie to begin with, but then to return for further teachings speaks more than any Bruce Lee hater can ever yap on some forum.

Understand now?

As for Tommy, it's obvious that you just cannot be convinced that a fighter does not need a 'fight record' to be considered a good fighter. If that's the case, I think you ought to consider match-ups with people who are in the same disciplines, rather than try to compare people from different fields of expertise and getting all hatery, especially on someone and something it is obvious that you don't have much background knowledge to make a balanced judgement on. Ignorance cannot be utilised as a show of knowledge, I'm afraid.

You say you know of Tommy Carruthers, and I've put some videos up, and I've related to first hand records which suggest that he's considered by someone who's the most alike to Bruce Lee he's come across, but still, he's nothing much because he's never fought in competitions. Jeez. Whatever, man.

 

You are missing the point.

I never said Carruthers was nothing much, ever. To be considerd a world class fighter then yes you need a record, 100%.

To suggest that I don't think Lee could handle himself is not the case, and I never suggested it. But I have seen

This content is protected

evidecne to suggest he was a world class fighter ever.

Once again I have never said he didnt have good idea's good idea's or techniques, but thats not the same as fighting ability.

 

Ok, since you know about Bruce Lee, let's keep it simple and direct. Let's be practical.

Note every/ some tv appearance Bruce made that he was given a platform to talk about martial arts during his time.

Note every/ some magazine publication that he was given a chance to air his views on martial arts during his time. ( note, you said mainstream.)

Ok, your turn. C'mon prove your points. Don't be wishy-washy about it. Be simple. Be direct. Note the opportunities during Bruce's time when he reached a mainstream readership/ viewership to air his martial arts views.


PS. I couldn't give a **** about whether BJ Penn could beat Bruce Lee or not. It's all fantasy.

 

I don't have time to start noting every tv appearance or magazine interview. Bruce Lee was involved in TV and film. These 2 platforms alone were huge. Using these platforms he shows what he can do. It is with these platforms that he shows his style of fighting etc It's these movies that made people think he is the best ever. If I talk to the average joe they will ask me stupid questions like bruce lee vs muhammad ali etc

If you go on IMDB you will see a host of TV and movies where he demonstrated his Martial Arts. Go on youtube and you will see a number of interviews where he talks about JKD etc

Bruce Lee dying young also helped make him into a cult hero.

 

Ohhh, I see...world class fighter. By the way, I never said anything regarding Tommy being a world class fighter or whatever. I didn't think that was the point.

I mentioned Tommy to illustrate the capabilities that Bruce Lee would have had based on first hand accounts.

So, if your argument is about Bruce Lee not being some world class fighter...based on a 'fight record', then fair enough. Your rules, your game. I'm not.

You should have just kept it that simple to begin with.

Fighter = fight record.
Not a fighter = no fight record.

Gotcha.

You do realise that many people who can fight have no 'fight record' right? Just checking.

 

World class fighters dont need a record, in sanctioned fights.

But there needs to be a record of fights with other world class fighters, not sacntioned. But there needs to be evidence that they beat class fighters, if there is not then how can you determine who is good and who is not?

 

Oh dear, man. You ****ing let me down. I said no wishy-washy ****. Come ON, dude!!

I set you up with something ridiculously simple and I get a big fat FAIL. WTF!


Let me help you out though, cos I'm friendly and ****.

Like I said, it was in subsquent years after Bruce's death that his appreciation from the mainstream, the general public developed. However, during his time, the only mainstream audience he ever had was the Green Hornet, in the US. Period.

He had a handful of articles in Black Belt and talked a little about his art during tournament exhibitions. But then again, that's hardly mainstream/ general public material, is it?

The movies. The movies came to the US public and the rest of world, after his death. Enter the Dragon come out after his death. Game of Death came out 5 years after his death. In HK, where his films were made, he made appearances on a few tv appearances and did do some demos.

That's basically it. Did the HK tv appearances get publicity outside of HK during his lifetime? Are they now? Not really.

I rest my case. Sorry, you don't seem to know a lot about Bruce Lee, I'm afraid. Certain;y not enough to make a strong argument for your case, and er, especially if it's kinda wrong?!