Do Heavyweights punch harder today...

Was the technique more perfect in the 90's?

 

I don't really think so. I think you are born a puncher or not, and I think someone such as Jack Dempsey would have been a puncher no matter what. Same with someone such as Rocky Marciano and Joe Louis. I'm not convinced that once you reach a certain weight that size really has much of a big impact on power. Other wise someone such as Valuev or Butterbean would be the hardest hitters of all time, and we obviously know Valuev isn't, and Butterbean can punch, but not at an ATG level.

 

Yeah I think modern top heavyweights must be bigger hitters, see some bigtime 1-punch KOs vs much bigger, stronger men and using more padded gloves.

I dont know what the glove size was in like Jack Dempsey's day but if Lennox Lewis or Tyson hit those guys with those little gloves people would get killed.

Dempsey vs Willard, Dempsey known as perhaps the biggest pre WW2 puncher, Willard keeps getting up, he wasnt actually stopped on a concussion, so I think if some of the modern guys hit Willard he would be near as spark out, Rahman/Lewis 2 styles.

 

I wonder what the truth is? I get what your saying. If both guys punched the same exact way, but one guy had more weight behind him he would strike with more force, but I wonder if the technique was diminished in the 90's. A bigger taller guy may be more restricted than a taller thinner guy as far as leverage on his straight punches?? Atheletic guys like Lewis and Wlad would be an exception, but I wonder if a guy like Tony Tucker who wasnt a super heavy 6'5" guy could punch harder than say Mike Grant?

 

Usually around 8ozs. Now they usually use 10ozs, sometimes 8. There are plenty of big 1 punch KOs vs bigger men back then too, it is part of what makes the heavyweights so exciting.

 

I checked my Almanac, and to my surprise, the records for the Shot Put gold medalists from 1972 on has remained remarkably consistent. That suggests to me that weight is not everything when it comes to some things. Otherwise guys like Mantle would not have hit 500 plus foot homeruns. But weight is still a huge factor in punching power IMO. So on average I believe modern heavyweights do punch harder.

 

Good Post Bill, It s funny but I think the old fashioned way of training acually had a way of developing a fighters punch. Guys like Marciano Dempey and Louis were all great punchers and would have been today.

A friend of mine was in Germany and was in the gym with Vlad just before a fight and he was amazed by the way Vlad folded the heavy bag with a hook but then there are other big guys like Valuev that are really not hard punchers if they were 5"10 amd 195.

Punchers are rare. How many really pure punchers have we had over the last 10 decades. One thing stands out Joe Louis was the best of the short,compact combination and put perfect leverage into a punch.

Marciano had a deadly punch and although people do not call him speedy, he had a very fast and awkward delivery and could mess up a rythym fighters tempo. He also beat a lot of the quick reflex guys to the punch. Marciano also ruined more guys after a fight with him were never the same. Layne,Lasarza.Vingo,Charles, and he gave Moore a brutal Shellacking, even though Archie went on to a 38-4-2 record after he was never the same but the old Mongoose fought Ali 8 yrs later to his credit.

Dempsey, well there was no one like him up to his day and until Louis. If only he had been more active. I watch his fight against undefeated Firpo and you can see him in his prime and the raw power.

Foreman was crude and wideswinging but even though in prime he was 220lbs, he still had more raw power (clubbing) than many that came after him. Still if you watch his fight with also old5"7 Dwight Quawi, you can see the solid chinned quawi short stature gave him trouble.

Tyson...Mike had power when he was a 200 - minus heavyweight fighting for the Olympics but at -5"11 it did not matter his punch was natural power trained as a child by Cus to be champ. He beat many Big guys

6'5 Lennox Lewis beat a lot of good heavyweights. Lewis had power and size and used it well under the guidence of Stewart but the 2 men to go the distance with Lewis were 6 ft Levi Billups and 5"11 Ossie Ocasio

6'1 Mike Weaver a late starter who gained confidence in a title bout vs Holmes his record was 18-9 but after that fight showed excellent power, Koing BIG John Tate and Geriie Coetzee with rare late power.Weaver weighed 202 and Holmes 215 for that fight. Weaver weighed 207 to 6"4 Big John Tate 232 but destroyed him forever in that fight. Weaver weighed 210 to 6"3 Coetzee's 226lbs

There have been others like Satterfield 175lbs who KO'd big Heavys like Bob Baker and Cleveland Williams and Dropped and Beat Nino Valdez amoung others

210lb Earnie Shavers who Ko'd Norton but had Holmes,Mercado,Lyle down before losing by KO and others hurt in fights. He Ko's a 7-3 Jimmy Young but the rematch was different

Max Baer was also a heavy puncher Killed 2 men in the Ring although one died in his next fight most felt it was Max's right hand that did the lingering damage.

Joe Walcott was a boxer and did not look for the KO but he had pinpoint punching power and could level you with one punch. He had Louis down 4 times, Marciano down once and KO'd Charles with one of the most brutal Ko's ever

 

I always find it funny when people talk about superheavyweights and big 250+ pound guys punching harder. Figure this out then.

Shavers fought Lyle and weighed about 206 pound. Lyle was a 212 pound guy. Foreman was mid 220's when he fought the 216 pound Lyle. Lyle says Shavers was the hardest he been hit. "Definitely" harder than Foreman. Most look at Shavers as the hardest hitter of all time. Guys like Dempsey and Marciano that weigh mid 180's to around 190 could not possibly hit as hard as these 200-220 or even 240-260 pound men.

Now, Holyfield fights Foreman. Out of all the punches Holyfield fought he claimed the hardest he ever got hit was when he faced Foreman. Foreman was a 255 pound man. Most here don't subscribe to the idea that old Foreman hit harder than young Foreman. So, the biggest puncher of the 70's was probably the biggest and hardest hitter of the 90's. According to Holyfield, who took clean shots from Lewis, Tyson, Foreman, and sparred with Tua.

You figure it out. Once you get 180+ pounds weight doesn't seem essential when talking about punching power. The 205 pound Earnie Shavers definitely hit harder than some of the 240+ pound HWs of the likes of Lennox Lewis, Sam Peters, Wladimir, and Sanders. Shavers was really a skinny muscle guy around the mid 70's, but he hit like a ton of bricks.

Next to Shavers, Ali said the hardest he got hit was against Joe Frazier. This should tell you most the story.

 

I forgot Frazier and his Ko's over 6"3 Mathis,6"4 Manual Ramos, Ellis, and UD over 6'2 1/2 Ali

 

This has me thinking about Holyfield. To me, when he bulked up to rumble with the big boys, it wasn't just that his punches didn't have as big an effect with bigger guys but that the unnecessary bulk made him a less free puncher. His CW weight was his natural weight and he'd have been about the same on the scales as a Demspey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, etc. I'm not too sure it helps or hurts. So many of today's guys don't strike me as being naturally that much bigger, just unnaturally bulked up and/or plain old fat. Chagaev? This guy has come in at 235 before and I think if he were at his best, he'd be maybe 205, 210 somewhere. Same goes for Eddie Chambers and the like. Look how much more natural he seemed in his last with the extra pounds trimmed off.

 

Great points and probably a top 200lber is more athletic and able to get his body into the shot quickly than can a physically stronger 240lb.
On gloves, I wonder if unlike modern ones that maybe they could bent out of shape and that the stuffing could move especially if used by someone with Dempsey's power, so when he actually hit blokes, the padding wasnt as good as modern ones.

 

That's another good point when addressing the old time fighters. So, it's possible that there power might be a tad fabled. In the end they were great punches. From the 50's onward, I think we see a better comparison. Has there really been a harder puncher since Shavers? Maybe, but not of that caliber to be exposed or seen. Is it possible the 255 pound Foreman hit harder than the 70's version... I suppose.