Wheres your list ? if you dont have one fine cause i know it takes alot of time to make up a good one. But who do you think is 30ish 40 ish 50 ish? That shouldnt be so hard. By the way i thought that was good post and i showed a good reason why you underrate him,and how i do not overrate him.
No, you gave your opinions and I disagree. You are overrating him. Don't have a list but chuck a name at me and I can give you an indication of where I think they might be :good
One other question Flea, what past lightweight greats do you think could move up from ligtweight and beat a prime Oscar at Welter and grab a JM title? Dont tell me Whittaker cause he couldnt beat Oscar. And dont give me that he was past his prime cause he looked like he turned back the clock for that fight, and the fight was close but no way controversial. Duran Yey ill give you that one for sure. But who else:huh
To tell you the truth anarci I could easily find 40 guys Id rank ahead of Shane even if I very heavily factored in H2H ability and in the ring dominance more then I do now. A lot of guys I would pick over him from 135-147..He beats a ton but loses to the best in every division he fought at. He is a great fighter who continues to prove this..but he showed his limitations and quite frankly he is an admitted cheat, thats puts a bit question mark over his entire career in my eyes. There is just really no argument I can see for him being that high. Even if you clearly do know your ****, your bias to west coast and latino fighters you are familar with is pretty evident..Im sure even you can see that :hey .
Ok since Flea wont answer my question maybe you can. What 135 lb outside of Duran could move up to Welter and beat a prime Oscar at 147 and 154.. Dont give me Whittaker I already stated my reasons why. Also the Roids didnt help him so im not even tripping on that one. I agree that he showed he has problems with an elite tall boxer type, but no shame in losing to those guys alot of Elite ATGs had those types of guys that they couldnt beat or always gave them trouble. I wont go into which ones and against who right know cause its to much writing but i think you know which greats im talking about.
I already acknowledged Duran. Whittaker:nono He lost to Delahoya read ^ what i said earler. Ike Williams was definitly an all time great and top 5 lightweight but he wouldnt beat Oscar at 147:nono His win over Gavilan was controversial and Gavilan came in at 141 for that fight beside Gavilan beat him convincingly in the other 2 fights. Ok no shame in that since i have Gavilan around 30ish. He also loss to Charlie Salas,Joe Miceli2x,George Costner,jed black,and Lastre, and kod by Gil Turner all excellent old time fighters but guys Mosley would have beaten. Williams also wouldnt have fared as well as Mosley at 154. Ok but even if you still dont agree with me arent those guys great company to be in? Arent those guys all in your top 40?
I am a big fan of Mosley but I don't see an argument to put him in an all time top 40. He has the ability and the win over Oscar was great but the rest of his resume doesn't stack up. Wins over Vargas, Mayourga and Margarito are good but not great.
Goo boxrecing:good Doesn't work like that IMO. To be honest your logic is skewed so we're never going to agree. Like the debates though:good
20 years from know i guarrantee you that he will be:yep Most people underrate fighters from today and Overrate fighters from the past. By no means am unaware of the fighters from the past accomplishments and abilities,but thats how i see it. I think alot of people here on ESB are just going along with what everyone else thinks.