FIGHT Record vs FIGHT Record

LOL...But we ALL know how Margarito was able to put such of ass kicking on Cotto now, dont we?

 

I was gonna say that Floyd had faced one great fighter but then realised I would have every ***** on ESB on me.

Take it to 1 - 0 then

I think the fact that Ulili slags off Pacquiao's opponents by saying that they are past their prime then defends the Chavez win for Oscar and forgets to mention that Trinidad put on two of the worst beatdowns i've ever seen on to Fernando Vargas and Ricardo Mayorga.

 

Hell NO! According to Uli, those two were in their primes when they fought Oscar.

 

I have it 1-0 for Floyd too.

 

:good Agree with everything except Chavez (still good but nolonger great)was more past it then Barrera and Morales who were on the decline but far from shot. But everything else was spot on, and one other thing Whittaker turned the clock back that night, he looked like a prime Sweet Pea and he still lost! I had it 115-112 Oscar. Pernell would have never beaten Oscar at 147 not that night or anyother night.

 

And barrera was not shot in the first Pacquiao fight no matter what you say. He was the man to beat at that weight, in his last 16 fights only had one controversial loss, won his next 6 until losing a close fight to Marquez and was only 29 years old. I don't see by what definition you can say he was shot.

Oh let me guess, he was shot because he wasn't able to do what he normally does? That's because he was having the **** beat out of him, not because he was shot.

Chavez never won another meaningfull fighter after losing to DLH, the same can not be said for Barrera after losing to pacman.

 

That's interesting, considering numbers are pretty much the crux of the argument in Pac's favor any time he's ever brought up in a debate compared to the all time greats. If you actually want to go behind the numbers (as in the fighters at the time he fought them) the case for Pac is probably even weaker, unless you're just talking inherent ability.

 

Well, you're certainly in the minority there, as most believe he actually did win the fight. Not to mention that even though he turned back the clock, that clearly wasn't the best Whitaker in there. The Whitaker that faced McGirt would've been a much better representation of Pea at his best at WW, or Chavez obviously. He looked clearly better in those fights than in the Oscar fight. Not taking into account who he was facing, but the abilities he showed.

Then there's the fact that Pea was never really in his prime at Welter in the first place. Oscar certainly wasn't beating him at Lightweight for instance.

 

De la Hoya fights a guy the same size of him gets beat up over the first half of the fight before winning via KO

Pac moves up in weight to fight a guy who has beat more good and v good fighters than Vargas can dream and and is on evev terms for 4 rounds before dominating the rest of the fight.

Cotto is the better win :good

 

Well i know youve been on ESB longer than me,but the polls and opinions ive seen are pretty much split down the middle,and Oscar his hated on here more so than Whittaker( which is strange since lot of people didnt like him back then where as Oscar was popular must be an age thing and younger fans just dont like Oscar) so I dont take a lot of the posts seriously,seen the fight countless times and ive never been able to see whittaker winning this fight. Unlike other fights were i can see the fight a slightly diffrent way (hagler leonard) for instance

I also disagree with you on How Whittaker looked that night i thought he looked just as good as he did with Mcgirt and others, and Oscar had something to do with why you might think diffrently. I think Pernell was Leery of taking chances with Oscar,and played too damn much. Think Oscar even improved at welter after that fight since that was his first one at that weight he would have beaten more decisvly had they fought again, any version of Whittaker for that matter.

Well one thing you might be surprised on is do agree with you that Sweet Pea might have beaten Oscar at 135. Oscar hit much harder at that weight and was a beast,but Oscar had not quite reached his peak as far as Ring general, he seemed to be used to bombing guys out. I can see Whittaker winning a close decision at that weight.

 

Whitaker looked great defensively that night, for sure. Offensively he lacked the sharpness in his attack, though his jab was on form. He wasn't as quick on his feet or as generally athletic as he used to be, either. Also, as you mentioned, he clowned around too much. Which I think was partly due to the fact that at that age he couldn't really commit to a more offensive style, and wouldn't have been able to implement it as well had he tried.

Also, I don't really think Oscar improved after that fight. If anything, I thought he looked his best overall at 140, where he combined the power he posessed at LW with the growing skills and experience he'd later gain. At the stage he was at when he faced Whitaker he was smack dab in his prime. The fact that it was his first fight at Welter is irrelevant because he was still facing a smaller fighter, so it's not like he was giving up any physical advantages he'd usually have.

 

You might be right 140 might have been his best weight. However at 147 i think he even got stronger than when he first moved up to fight Whittaker, think he peaked at that weight around the time he fought Camacho,Rivera up until Mosley,Gatti fights. However close enough he was still at about 95% when he fought Whittaker, you got a point that little extra power wouldnt have meant that he Kod Whittaker but i think he would have been more aggressive.
You made some good points but im still of the opinion that Whittaker didnt do as much offensivly cause he was leery of Oscar. I thought Pernells reflexes looked up to par as in previous fights unlike when he fought Hurtado.
I think Whittaker was as quick on his feet as he ever was at 147 but not like he was at 135, he seemed to be more flat footed and lost a little bit of speed when he moved up.
Thats why im picking him at 135 but never at 147.