The Crouch And Cutting Off The Ring

Yes. Its mostly footspeed, balance, and lateral movement that helps a fighter cut off the ring...agression helps a lot to. A crouch by itself makes a fighter harder to hit, and works vs certain types of stances and tendencies

 

That is an excellant post. The crouch also adds to the pressure as people are harder to hit and when you are missing and going back it is very tiring.

A crouch-stalking style is a long-term strategy more than the quicker Tyson, Patterson style which was much quicker and more furious even Frazier for instance was'nt as slow paced and controlled as a crouching style.

The crouch is much more tactical and used in 15 round bouts more as generally them guys you listed came on strong late. Whereas guys like Tyson have a much more explosive style/stance that suited a shorter fight.

 

The style is **** in todays boxing. Its the most archaeic form of pressure fighting. Can you name one fighter today who uses it to any success?? I can think of one Vic Darchinian and hes mostly successful because of his punching power, otherwise he takes a lot of leather and gets the **** knocked out of him.
The evolution of this style has more emphasiss on defense whether glove blocking, or head and upper body movement. A fighter like Tyson emulated fighters like Marciano, Dempsey, Liston and Lamotta, but added the defensive techniques of D'amato's system. Those were his idols.
You can sub categorize styles all you want, but they still fall under pressure fighters who move forward, and this particular style has for the most part faded away due to its lack of defense.

 

Tyson though is not anything like Marciano, maybe he admired him but he hardly incorporated any of his style into his own.

The crouch like I said before is a more tactical form of defence IMO better made for longer fights hence why they worked better in the 'archaeic' times. Whereas modern times are shorter number of rounds is more furious, hence why Tyson's style did well.

But surely guys like Carmen Basilio, Jake Lamotta, Rocky Marciano who boxed in the fifties cannot be described as 'archaeic' and surely these guys style helped them rather than hindered them? Why would such good fighters pursue a style which is deeply flawed?

Also about a crouch used by todays fighters, off my head I can't think of any but what does that prove?

 

I don't see too many Mike Tyson's or Joe Frazier's in today's boxing either.

 

Keep in mind just cause someone fights with a bit of a hunched back, or makes a low target of sort, doesn't mean they all get lumped in together.

A lot of these fighters being mentioned here were quite distinct from each other in terms of stance.

 

No you're right. Not a lot of offensive pressure fighters at all really. David Tua would probably be the last of the lot.
Maybe add Omar Sheika to that mix too

 

The general concept is to stay low because as I said it makes it harder to be hit and creates openings when your opponent has to punch down or lean in. It doesnt work today because of its defensive shortcomings that became more apparent with the evolution of the boxing style. For instance a simple counter hook or uppercut is very affective against a non elusive target moving in. The incorporation of head movement and upper body movement to a forward moving target adds another guess to the countering equation.

As far as Tyson, most of his inspiration was in the form of combinations, such as the right to the body lefthook up top, etc.

Yes but they were distinctly forward moving offensive brawlers. For the most part (generally speaking), boxers can be categorized into three categories boxer, boxer puncher, brawler, but all have an emphasis on different aspects of their particular style which is the point Im making.

 

Who would swarm and not brawl??

 

Chavez was a boxer puncher to me. Frazier was a brawler. There is such a thing as controlled brawling, again another dimension of it. Mike Tyson at his best had the most refined form of brawling, because of his defensive technique that was incorporated into the style.

 

It is an excellant thread

BOLD: Are you saying a counter hook or uppercut is just a recent addition to a boxers arsenal, dont tell me no one threw a counter hook or combination before 1980 or whenever.

Underlined: Do you not think Dempsey with his sideways almost crab like bobbing and weaving; Marciano with his low weave; Basilio with his bobbing style; and Lamotta with his rolling movements, do you not think they are forms of head movement? effective head movement even?

Out of interest what are your thoughts on Bobo Olssen's style?, he had that pressure fighting style but had a real nifty defence.