The Crouch And Cutting Off The Ring

So you are saying SRR invented the counter uppercut?

What has changed so much since their era to render it ineffective now

 

Answer these questions. We'll start over.

Who did Marciano's style resemble the most? Ali, Holyfield, or Tyson?

Did Marciano crouch down to use it as a defensive technique and a way to get closer to his opponents?

 

Your just being silly now. You tell me why noone uses those styles now?? Its been a long time since anyone used anything close to either Tyson or Lamottas style with great success.
Would you say that its probably because its a difficult style to carry out effectively and it takes a certain kind of physical ability?
Would you say defense has become more of an emphasis in boxing?
Would you say guys are punching harder in their respective weight classes?

 

To sum up this monumental post, yes boxing styles have improved since those times, but in recent years they have regressed again. Your making my very point in your last paragraph. Just like any sport technique and dimension has evolved, been perfected, and changed by either a fighters ability or interpretation of it. Using a generalization of styles which I pointed out in a previous post, and what most boxing people still use to classify fighters styles today, a fighter like Tyson would be classified to a similar fighting style to a Dempsey or Marciano. His approach was not exactly the same, no, and I never said that, but it sure as hell is a closer version of that style as opposed to someone like Ali's, and in my opinion a more defensive based and effective approach of that style thus my opinion of it being improved, especially considering those were the fighters that Tyson was watching and emulating, short stocky, strong, punchers, and dont tell me you know for sure a 5'10 185 Marciano wouldnt have gotten knocked out against a 6'4 230 pound James Douglas on that night because of his style. Talk about ignorance.

 

Dwight Braxton Quwi fought out of a crouch and did so effectivly

 

Yes over 25 years ago. A 5'5 LH/cruiserweight doesnt have too many options for fighting styles, and most fighters fighting in this style were at a deficit in both the height and reach department.

 

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I agree with a lot of what you said, but my posts have always been based on the evolution or different interpretation of three general styles that I mentioned and yes there is different modus by different fighters obviously, be it for height, reach or ability. Peet just took it the wrong way or doesnt agree which is fine. Agree Frazier was the easiest to hit because his style was a bit more predictable. I will say I wouldnt put as much merit into your description of Tyson in the fights you used as examples. Tyson was very difficult to hit at his best through the course of a fight, especially when comparing him to the fighter that showed up for Lewis Douglas, and Holyfield which had far less head and upper body movement which you pointed out.
You dont see too many Ali's but you see more fighters using a boxing style with sucess as opposed to forward marching brawlers.

 

My theory why no one uses this style as they just arnt popular. Back in say the 50s you had guys like Basilio and Marciano who were legends and kids going into the gym wanted to be like there heros so they copied them and more guys used the crouch. Then since then no one has really used it to great sucess, so no one else is using it as they are not aware of it.

Look when Tyson was boxing you had guys mimiking him, now theres not a lot. In a few years time we gonna have Pacquiao clones.

Of course the style needs physical abilility but most top boxers have it.

No defnce has not become more of an emphasis IMO

Guys maybe are punching harder as they weigh more in the ring but so does the guy taking the punch so it balances it out and is relative to past eras, and I think Robinson hits harder than any Welterweight (excluding Hearns) and he was troubled by a crouching stance.

 

That still holds truth today. You emulate certain fighters you like. How many trainers are teaching this style today? Not many. Its a very very difficult style to fight in. I tried it and its hard to continously move forward and not take a lot of fire. I felt more comfortable staying back and trying to counterpunch. As Ive said the good majority of fighters that used this style, in recent years especially, where fighters that didnt have the physical attributes to operate at distance. The true masters of it used their lack of height to their advantage.

At heavyweight for instance the ratio is not balanced. At no time did you have a fighter with the size and skillset of a Wladmir Klitschko fighting a top guy in the 210-215 range. His size and reach alone would allow him to reach a guy like Marciano leaning back far easier than an inconsistent bobbing and weaving target.
The advancement of diet and nutrition has allowed fighters to create far more advantages in lower weight classes as well.

Not necesarily for this style.

Generally speaking since the early days it has in my opinion

 

Almost every style is difficult to fight in though. You admitted yourself you like to stay back and counter so you trying out a crouch isnt too effective in itself but say if Tyson tried out a crouch it would be different. Part of the style is to get in close so yes the guys cannot operate at distance hence why they uise the stance.

The taller Klitschko is, the more he would have to punch down and leave himself vulnerable. They should make a saying about it

'Bigger they are the harder they fall'

Yes but tahts is more of a question of individual fighters genetics than anything

What makes you think that?

Arguably you have guys like Olssen who were aggresive but had good defences and even guys liek Basilio and Lamotta. Aggresive fighters today are arguably less defensive aware compared to these guys arnt they?

 

The height and reach Klitschko has is so much of a difference, he wouldnt have to commit himself as much to reach Marciano. (See Chris Byrd fights).

No not every style is difficult to fight in especially compared to this one. In fact most people prefer to stay back and operate at distance because its easier to see punches.

Next time you spar try it, and see how hard it is to avoid punches as compared to setting up punches at distance.

To your last comment, yes! But there are far far less of them because of the reasons I stated earlier.

 

Disagree, Wlad struggled much more to find the crouching and ducking Sultan than he did Byrd. Wlad himself said he couldn't reach him and was hesitant to force the issue because he would be off balance if he tried to swing that low.

 

He struggled to what knock him out or win 11 of 12 rounds, so I dont know effective his style was??:blood
What about the jab?

 

Didnt Sultan go the full 12 rounds? Belive Wlad hardly landed a punch on him.Wlad won because he was doing the glove flickiering thing, but hardly any punchs were thown in that fight.