Top Ten HW's - Can Harry Wills Be Considered?

I know Langford and Wills are legendary fighters, but Langford was a guy who fought at lightweight. Even at his bigget he was something like 175. He was a great fighter in his day, and nothing shoudl be taken away from him, but I don't think vicotries over him qualify anyone to be a top 10 guy.

 

Harry Wills was obviously a good heavy of the 20s, however, his fights do NOT exist on film......... Therefore, we cannot really judge his ability and credentials in the modern world......... I have NO CLUE what he could do today as a modern fighter if Wills was in his prime.........

MR.BILL

 

Wills is something of an enigma for us today. Reports from his own day were split on his ability - some saying he was a genuine great, others that he was mostly hype. As MrBill said, there's nearly no footage of him for us today to gauge his style and abilities. His biggest career win was Fred Fulton, who was considered a talented fighter in his day but also very vulnerable, and in fact was similarly KO'd by the likes of Dempsey and Billy Miske. He had another big win (unofficially) over Luis Firpo, but reports described that as a dull, ugly fight that did little to enhance either one's reputation. Fighters like Langford, McVey, etc. were still considered dangerous but had been denoted as past their peaks even before Wills started fighting them. In a nutshell, it's hard to assess the value of many of his big wins and what they show. He spent a lot of his career in small rings fighting tough guys for peanuts, but he spent just as much milking his top contender status and turning down fights with fellow contenders like Miske, Gibbons, Tunney, etc. I would say any argument for him being in or near the all time top 10 is going to be a flawed one at best.

 

You can consider him.

But you're a flaming idiot if you include him in your top-10.

 

Believe it or not, I have actually seen Wills appear on several top 10-20 lists, though I can't really recall where I saw them or the names of the people who constructed such lists. What I can say, is that while I don't PERSONALLY rate him there, my answer to your question would be yes. An argument can most certainly be made, and for many of the reasons that you listed. Some here have already made a valid point about his limited or non-existent footage on film, but how impressive a fighter looks, is not necessarily how he will ultimately be rated from a legacy standpoint. Wills was a man who defeated a large number of noteworthy named opponents, gave them numerous rematches, and fought during a time when boxing pushed a person to their maximum physical limits. I haven't the slightest clue as to how he'd do in a head to head sense, but for whatever its worth, he may very well be one of the very best heavyweights to never have received a world title shot.

 

McGrain has him at ten if I remember correctly.

Hopefully he'll contribute to this thread.

 

Coming from you this is a compliment :good


I have him in the same bracket as Mike Tyson, Jack Dempsey and Sam Langford, meaning he ranks between 12 and 15. I can see the argument for a Top10 ranking but I think others have a stronger one.

 

Paulino Uzcudun vs. Harry Wills boxing bout of July 13, 1927, held in Brooklyn, New York. By William D. Cayton

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Type of Work:Motion picture or filmstrip
Registration Number / Date:RE0000699889 / 1995-01-23 MP0000017110 / 1967-04-20
Titleaulino Uzcudun vs. Harry Wills boxing bout of July 13, 1927, held in Brooklyn, New York. By William D. Cayton.
Copyright Note:C.O. correspondence.
Series:Knockout
Variant titleaulino Uzcudun vs. Harry Wills boxing bout of July 13, 1927, held in Brooklyn, New York
Copyright Claimant:Big Fights, Inc. (PWH)


Has anyone here seen this fight?

 

Not in order:

Places 1-2
Ali, Louis

Places 3-4
Holmes, Marciano

Places 5-12
Johnson, Tyson, Frazier, Foreman, Jeffries, Dempsey, Tunney, Holyfield

Places 13-17
Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Liston, Willis, Sullivan

18-20
Cooney, Patterson, Norton

 

Wills resume has a red flag on it. Fellow black contender George Godfrey tried to make a match with Wills several times. Wills refused. I think top ten is a real stretch for Wills. Top 20 is possible. Top 30-50 is more likely.

 

Wills, imho, would have lost to Dempsey had they fought. He wasn't the monster that George Godfrey was in the ring. But again, that's just me.

 

Pretty much agree Wills should be rated on the same tier as Dempsey. He dominated many of the best HWs from 1914-1926. I think he has a better resume than Dempsey with Langford (21 times was it?), mcVey, jeanette, Firpo, Fulton. Just because the likes of Langford/Mcvey/jeanette werent quite prime doesnt make them as quality wis