Tommy Burns vs Bill Squires (1907)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010.


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  1. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R7IMsOiftE[/ame]


    Burns, no more than 5'7" and 178 pounds, was made the underdog against Australia's Bill Squires who was coming off a 20 consecutive knockout streak in the 'Land Down Under'. Squires was considered too big, too strong, for Burns and that only Jim Jeffries stood a chance at beating Squires.

    The result was one of the fastest knockouts in history of boxing. Burns was a 10-1 underdog and he kayoed Squires inside 1:30 of the first round. Amazing stuff. Its sad people remember Burns for the loss to Johnson, but not for his exploits at middleweight, light heavyweight and early heavyweight championship reign. He was the first to truly challenge the world.
     
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    #1
  2. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Burns is terribly underated, as are a few other hw champs. Guess to many you are just as much worth as the outcome of your most prominent fight.

    This fights also proves that it doesn´t mean anything if you look incredible against mediocre opponents when you step up to the real deals.
     
    bodhi, Jan 25, 2010
    bodhi, Jan 25, 2010
    #2
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Burns was to meet Squires twice more ,on two different continents . Carrying him a few rounds in both fights before dispatching him.
    Jeffries is the referee in the fight shown he does not look that heavy ,but of course this is 1907 ,and he did not meet Johnson for another 3 years.
     
    mcvey, Jan 25, 2010
    mcvey, Jan 25, 2010
    #3
  4. flamengo

    flamengo Coool as a Cucumber. Full Member

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    Squires was not coming of 20 consecutive KO's at all.. 8 in fact.

    Burns being a 10-1 underdog is the sort of rubbish you'd hear in a Cayton narrated documentary.
     
    flamengo, Jan 25, 2010
    flamengo, Jan 25, 2010
    #4
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Squires previous 2 fights had been no dec' s against Arthur Cripps a 4 and a 6 rounder ,both went the distance.
    Previous to this, Squires had amassed an eleven ko streak.
    Squires actually weighed less than Burns for their California fight ,[posted] ,he was 180lbs to Burns 181lbs.
     
    mcvey, Jan 25, 2010
    mcvey, Jan 25, 2010
    #5
  6. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    Sorry for the mistakes, however, it cant be denied that Squires was considered Australia's best man and was figured to be the favorite and demolish Burns easily. Squires had a impressive kayo streak by that era's standards, considering most fights ended in no decisions and no contests.

    Also, to say Burns challengers were weak is a bit misguided. Jem Roche's record is incomplete, as some have discovered that the Irishman had nearly 30 fights. The same goes for many of Burns title defense opponents. Bill Lang was mere fodder for Burns, who was another great Australian fighter. Gunner Moir didnt stand a chance either, and Moir kayoed such men as Billy Wells.

    It makes me wonder, sometimes, had Burns given Sam McVey the shot instead of Johnson, would he have beaten big Sam, and if so, would there even have been a Jack Johnson to remember?
     
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    #6
  7. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Burns looks quality in this footage, I've liked it for some time.

    Didn't realise he'd beaten Lang; would be interesting to see if he did any better than Langford, who looks good in the footage of him obliteratign Lang.
     
    Flea Man, Jan 25, 2010
    Flea Man, Jan 25, 2010
    #7
  8. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    Burns fought Squires and Lang in Australia, after which he defended his title against Jack Johnson. I believe that is how it went, that or he just fought Lang and then fought Johnson. One of the two.
     
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    #8
  9. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    I think whats amazing about the footage, really, is the enormity of Jeffries in comparison to not only Burns but to Squires. Jeffries wasn't fat or anything, he was just gigantic in height and bulk beside of them. The man truly was big for the era.
     
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    #9
  10. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Squires was probably not a 10-to-1 favorite but he did a remarkable job marketing himself to the press

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=YrsaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=v0gEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6402,5269085

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FwsbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=z0gEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6097,556955

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=950CE5D8133EE033A25757C0A9619C946697D6CF

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAIBAJ&dq=bill squires burns&pg=5454,3813602

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAIBAJ&dq=bill squires burns&pg=4978,6374814

    There are numerous articles of Squires talking up how great he is.

    Even Jim Jeffries said he would come out of retirement to face him:

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=8AkbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ykgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1236,6148181

    In the end he turned out to be a "false alarm":

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=QRUbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=y0gEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1899,608302

    So Burns deserves a lot of credit for putting an end to the hype inside a single round of fighting.
     
    TheGreatA, Jan 25, 2010
    TheGreatA, Jan 25, 2010
    #10
  11. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The New York Times article states that the odds were 7 to 10 in favour of Squires.
     
    TheGreatA, Jan 25, 2010
    TheGreatA, Jan 25, 2010
    #11
  12. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    Didn't know Jeffries had considered Burns as a possible come back opponent. I do know however that Squires originally called out Jeffries, for the "real" championship of the world and Jeffries laughed in his face. Squires then took on Burns and was kayoed in one round, and later became Burns sparring partner and was given two more shots at Burns, both kayo losses.
     
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    #12
  13. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, Jeffries looks gigantic in there but to me he also looks overweight by quite a few pounds.

    Burns was fierce when he had his opponent hurt. :good
     
    bodhi, Jan 25, 2010
    bodhi, Jan 25, 2010
    #13
  14. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    Even in the crowd, he stood out amongst them all ffs! Jeffries was a giant!
     
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    HomicideHenry, Jan 25, 2010
    #14
  15. flamengo

    flamengo Coool as a Cucumber. Full Member

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    Sorry McVey, Squires actual record prior to Burns reads like this, working back through his record...

    1906 KO 1 Mike Williams Melbourne.
    KO 1 Bill Smith Melbourne.
    KO 1 Peter Kling Melbourne.
    KO 3 Tim Murphy Melbourne. Aust H/W title
    KO 1 Ed Williams Melbourne.

    1905 KO 7 Peter Felix Sydney.
    KO 3 Dick Kernick Melbourne.
    KO 4 Tom Fennessey Melbourne.
    W/Pts6 Jack Goggings Wyalong.
    KO 6 Bill Smith Wyalong.
    KO 1 Pat Farley Newcastle.
    KO 1 Peter Felix Sydney.

    1904 L/F8 Arthur Cripps
    W/F 11 Peter Felix
    W/F 4 Starlight
    W/F 4 Mick Ryan
    KO 2 Bill Heckenberg
    KO 3 Starlight
    KO 3 Mick Ryan
    KO 1 Jack Tucker
    KO 2 Tom Ireland

    1903 D/6 Bob Hilderbrand
    W/15 Jerry O'Toole
    KO 1 Bob Hilderbrand
    KO 4 Jack Briston
    KO 3 Andy Walsh

    1902 KO 3 Joe Sullivan
    KO 2 Peter Mills
    KO 2 Jack Lanagan
    Ko 3 Bill Costello.
     
    flamengo, Jan 25, 2010
    flamengo, Jan 25, 2010
    #15
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