We would all agree somewhat that posters on this forum generally have a solid grasp of boxing in the last 5-10 years. During that time they have seen some fighters achieve extraordinary feats. However, due to age and the lack of particular knowledge of some posters, some fighters are spoken of in terms that are both biased and flagrantly untrue. In particular Julio Cesar Chavez and his achievements in the ring are portrayed in a light that seems rather unjust. The consensus of these posters is that Chavez simply was overrated. They base this on the fact that in his first 43 fights only six of his opponents had winning records. Their reasoning is flawed because they do not put this in its proper context. First, Chavez had virtually no amateur experience, whereas, some fighters have over 100 amateur fights before going pro Chavez had around 15. He came from a poor family that lived in a shack next to the train tracks and simply could not afford the luxury of gaining more experience before turning professional. Moreover, poverty and hunger caused him to turn pro at the age of 17. Before Chavez won his first title he fought every month for about three years. This level of activity is unheard of nowadays. Furthermore, Chavez in the early stages of his career was put on his brothers under cards just to fill spaces. Due to the record that most people question he was "cherry picked" to lose against the highly touted Mario Martinez. His undefeated record would have given this fight for the vacant title an air of legitimacy. During the fight Chavez systematically destroyed Martinez. During his stay at super featherweight Chavez had not in the eyes of the boxing community proven how great he was. As he was the underdog in his first fight with Roger Mayweather. Once again Chavez would not be denied the spoils of war, after two rounds he finished the "Black Mamba". He had other fights of note with Rocky Lockridge and Juan Laporte, yet he still had not shown he was destined for greatness. After, he went through his first division he decided to move up in weight to face the highly touted Edwin Rosario. Rosario was considered the absolute best fighter at 135 with an 87% knock out rate and a resume that included wins over Jose Luis Ramirez, Frankie Randall, and Livingstone Bramble. It was expected that Rosario would both dominate and knockout Chavez. In the end the opposite came true and now Chavez was a double Chamion having earned his second major title. When Chavez decided to fight Roger Mayweather for his third title in a third division he was once again the underdog. Roger had become the "Mexican Assassin" after convincingly beating: Champion Rene Arredondo, Mauricio Aceves, and Rodolfo Gonzalez. He had also recently defeated Vinny Pazienza in a convincing manner. In the eyes of Lederman, Roger was clearly winning the fight due to his ring generalship and "effective countering" despite Chavez landing with impunity and ad******g to his opponents nuances. Finally, "The Black Mamba" after ten rounds despite not being visibly hurt decided to retire on his stool. At this point Chavez had finally began to convince boxing writers that he was destined for greatness. Putting his career in the proper context one can appreciate and respect his achievements. To those with a solid grasp on boxing history understand that he truly belongs among the greats having earned his immortality in a Herculean manner.
No doubt, Chavez was 1 of the greatest fighters in the hstory of the sport, top 10 for me & the apex of all Mexican fighters, the very best of the lot.
There is some truth in it and Chavez definitly was a great fighter. Top30 I think. But I have to add that Benitez was already champ with 17 and other fighters turned pro even earlier. And there were and are fighters with a similar record of no or few amateur fights who never padded their records like Chavez, Marciano for example.
My aim was to illustrate that Chavez worked hard and his resume is full of upsets. It is rarely talked about that Chavez cleared the path to respect and millions for other fighters below middleweight. One thing to note is that when Chavez fought Mayweather the second time I could not help but to notice how Floyd's style resembles his Uncle's style. In that fight Chavez seems to layout the blueprint to stop Floyd.
There is nothing wrong with fighting at a low level against journeymen to learn your craft and work your way up the rankings, but it certainly shouldnt boost a legacy, whats more it is less impressive than being a decorated amateur with 200fights against some of the very best in the world. Certainly a great fighter, second best Mexican of all time after Sanchez for me, but overrated more often than underrated
Thats what impressed me the most about Chavez was the fighting style he had to achieve what he did, which is a very crowd pleasing style, but its very difficult to go as far as he did using that type of style. You usually see guys like this get shut out by good slicksters or outside fighters.
That is how I have him. Very similar to Duran and actually he fought some guys at 130 and 135 which were better than anyone Duran fought or comparable like Rosario and Ramirez and Lockridge and Mayweather. Although Duran fought better guys at the higher weights than Chavez, and to be honest I give Duran credit for fighting those guys even though he lost to all 4, and beat Ray when Ray was still inexperienced.
Exactly, pressure fighters usually wear themselves out. The physical and mental toll cuts many careers short. The way he overcame skilled boxers like Edwin Rosario, Roger Mayweather, Melderick Taylor, and Camacho speaks volumes. My comments are not regarding where he is placed among the greats, but to give proper perspective on Chavez as a whole. Where we place fighters on our own ATG list is according to our values and biases. To properly appraise Chavez I believe one needs to see the Chavez vs Mayweather match as well as the fight with Rosario in their proper perspectives in order to see the significance of those upsets.
Dont forget (or maybe you didnt know) that I only rank men with decent footage, that takes out about half if not more of most posters top 10 list. :good