Rate Lennox Lewis's chin

While true, I'm sorry to inform you that's a flawed point right there.
In terms of primes/how close one was to their best, they should clearly not get caught up in this obsession with age x - age y is the prime of every boxer, that just applies for average cases. Tyson and Lewis are not average cases, Tyson's prime came very early and was cut abruptly short, whereas Lewis had a late yet long prime. Tyson's prime in terms of technique and skill ended during his 8 month lay-off between the Spinks and Bruno fight, in which he divorced his wife, fired his manager Bill, broke his hand in a street brawl and most notably fired his trainer Rooney. In physical terms, other than the 1990 Douglas fight, he was last in prime condition back in 1991 in his 2 Ruddock fights, but never was he the quite same after prison deterioration. Lewis on the other hand was definitely not a great way off his prime when he fought Tyson, and was only 3lbs from his prime weight, compared to 16lbs extra for Tyson. Despite how badly faded Tyson was skill & stylewise, I think it would have been a great victory for Lewis if Tyson had turned up in the ripped shape he was for Etienne in 2003 at 225¾ (with Roach as trainer), however this is not Lewis's fault.


On topic: As for chin, 7.5 seems fair.

 

I know all that, point is Lewis was no spring chicken himself, not sure tyson was better for ettiene or not, we only had 90seconds of evidence

 

Age alone doesn't really mean much, compare at what age each of these guys had their primes.

Maybe so, but it doesn't change the fact he did next to no work for the fight and completely lacked focus.

Hit him clean, but had to beat the LARGE reach and height disparity, which takes a LOT of pop out of punches. Look how Tua was literally THROWING himself at Lewis to get there.

I'm playing devils advocate for the sake of discussion btw.

 

You knew exactly what I meant. And who's the one guy that stopped Holmes?

Holmes was hurt a few times throughout his career but was a different fighter to Lewis. I'd say Holmes had the better chin, and I'd favour him to outpoint Lennox by a slim margin. But that is another thread :good

 

Definitely. Lewis would have never gotten up from the first righthand.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxFcFCUAnW4[/ame]

 

Nor the one in Shavers 2 IMO .

Shavers problem was his delivery, lack of stamina and average durability.

HOWEVER: if he landed THAT shot on any Heavy, I doubt there are many that'd get up. He the way he sets himself for that shot, landing it as he did with that right hand.....you can see and hear how hard that shot was, and it was clear to see how hard is was by a) how heavy Holmes went down and how he striggledto get up b) the wide-eyed look of shock on Holmes' face, right until the end of the fight the way Holmes looks to engage right after the KD is a quality bluff enabling him to get under the game Shavers shot and clinch. He buys himself enough time and goes on to dominate. Shows just how intelligent he was IMO, he knew how to get himself back together, which is why I wouldn't favour anyone to stop him in his prime.

Can I just say Shavers was ****ed and shouldve been pulled out by about round 9, he had nothing left in the tank.

 

Cause he was knocked out twice by Not so great opponents, ive always felt that he was vulnerable agianst Big punchers.

 

Mcall and Rahman may have been only decent fighters but they where more than capable if not elite punchers though...

 

He did :huh

 

In all fairness,that is not a correct statement.Foreman is one of the hardest punchers in heavyweight history,and Frazier was hit multiple times flush by him.Lennox was ko'd twice by one punch apiece from fighters that will never be confused with having the same power as Foreman.I know those shots were flush,but it just demonstrates that whereas Lennox had a good chin,he was vulnerable.I'd say it was 6.5-7.

 

And the whole sequence just took a few seconds.

 

About a 7 IMO, for a champ he had a fairly mediocre chin, for a general heavyweight he had a rather good one.
Its not so much the huge right hands from Rahman and McCall which would have had most champs in trouble, but hes been wobbled lots of times by Briggs, Holyfield etc. Sure they can all hit but the champs with great chins would probably take many of those shots. To his credit hes hung tough with Mercer, Bruno etc

Hes not an ironchin and hes not FLoyd Patterson.

 

Ali was most definitely not totalled by Cooper's left the way Lewis was by Rahman. As I've said, I think Lewis had a good solid chin, but to put it in the top 8-10 bracket is a bit of a stretch. Evander Holyfield fought the cream of the same era as Lewis, fought prime Bowe three times, fought a better version of Tyson, and fought on from past-prime status to his current state of shot-to-****, and has never been totalled by one punch. So for me, Holyfield must rank higher than Lewis chin-wise. Yet I don't think you could argue that Holyfield had quite as good a chin as guys like Oliver McCall or guys like Ali, so Lewis has to be below the top echelons of the rankings IMO.

 

Actually rewatched Lennox-rahman and at 7-8 Lennox was getting up and the ref stopped it, so technically he wasnt down for the count. So lennox has never been kept down, 1-0 Lennox :yep And the guy who kept Holmes down is the same guy lennox dominated, 2-0 Lennox :yep lennox took on everyone and unified the belts, something Holmes didnt, 3-0 Lennox :yep but yea Holmes probably edges out a decision with his superior jab

 

I believe it is the right statement.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI8EQTa1cbM[/ame]

The short uppercut at 2:15 isn't comparable. It's a glancing blow which hits the top/temple area of Fraziers head, hell he gets up within 2 seconds. Not flush.

2nd KD at 3:13. A great uppercut, he was out on his feet. Refs nowdays would most likely stop the fight at this point, hell he didn't even look into Fraziers eyes!! Not as 'set' as McCalls imo.

3rd KD at 3:33. Joe was on ***** st from the 2nd kd, nothing in the punch that puts him down this time. Not flush.

4th KD at 5:05. Fraziers still feeling the effects of KD2. None of the punches here are comparable.

5th KD at 5:23. Fraziers caught with a good hook off balance whilst trying to throw his own, imo more down to the fact he's still pretty much out on his feet.

Final KD at 5:48. Foreman plants his feet and starts swinging, A good hook to put Frazier down, nothing amazing, Frazier was already done.

Compared with:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQy-ScwyvE[/ame]

For years I would defend Lewis on this one, the evidence was there as far as I could see. Lots of photos of McCall with his eyes closed, he threw wildly I believed.
But I was kidding myself, McCall had noticed that when Lewis loaded up the right he would move to the left. He knew exactly where Lewis would be and thus could put 100% into that one punch, even with his eyes closed, which he did.

The only punch I can see being close is KD2. Frazier was up at 6-7 (as was Lewis) and was out on his feet (As was Lewis). IMO by todays standards the fight gets stopped at this point.

Remember, the worst punches are always the ones you can't see coming.