Top 5 most overrated boxers of All Time

Hey pachillies,

It wasn't Leonard beating Duran all around the ring in Montreal when both were healthy. Duran outclassed Leonard and showed who was the real master boxer.

And Leonard waited until Hagler was over the hill and he still couldn't beat the man. Of course, he would as usual benefit from Ray-smitten ring officials.

Duran and Hagler were champions of champions, men who took on all comers under all circumstances. Twelve successful defenses a piece in the divisions they dominated. Leonard was good, but he's not in their league.

One last thing. When was Hagler ever dropped to the canvas? Whatever it was, it wasn't seven times. Oh, yeah - it was never. When was Hagler ever helpless up against the ropes? Can you ever imagine Camacho knocking out Hagler?

Leonard was humilated in the ring by Norris and Camacho. That never happened to Hagler.

 

Embarrassingly bad post.

 

As if anyone listens to you!

 

Great post Bennie!!

In my opinion, a fighter becomes shot by making defenses, not by NOT making them as was the case with Leonard

Leonard could never boast of making a record number defenses

how may does Ray have, ZERO?

To mindless nuckleheads on ESB, LESS IS MORE!

that's really how they think

The important thing to remember is Terry has the big name on his record with a W next to it.

We can't say the same about Leonard tho. And no matter how they cry about it, the record will always read

Norris W U12 Ray Leonard :yep

and never,,

Ray Leonard W 12 Terry Norris :nono

We get to brag and they don't! :tong

:happy

The beating was thoroughly convincing. I already knew Terry with his speed would lead to Leonard's devestating defeat. Ray had never dealt with someone of Terry's speed before; he didn't have the proper experience and hence got himself

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A shame about that Camacho fight

In all honesty, I wish Ray had retired after the Hagler fight. His image would be free of that "he cant deal the young upstarts" syndrome

I bet his fans wish that Terry Camacho and Hector Camacho had never been born!

 

Thanks for pointing out the truth

and the reason Leonard couldnt make defenses is because he wasnt capable of making too many. I don't think

IMO, he was a little on the fragile side. I didnt say very fragile, I said a little meaning that he wasnt the most durable guy around.

Certainly no Hagler!

His rep suffered greatly because of what happened in the last two fights and for his numerous comebacks when no retirement was warranted in the first place

This is why I wanted Ray to do more with his career.

I really think he should have taken the fight with Pryor before he retired and then his resume wouldnt look so bare

Then he'd have Benitez, Duran, Hearns, Pryor (forget the Hagler fight, I thought Hagler shaded him)

Even four names is not a lot but better than what he had. IMO, a win over Micheal Nunn in 1989 would have been the ultimate. Mike coming off the ace win over Kalambay vs Leonard-unbeaten in 8 years and five time champion. How could the public not want it?

and the thing that REALLY gets me is How could his fans and ESBers not want it?

What do you think MM? A win over Nunn gets him in the top ten?

 

Why do you say that Addie? he was only telling the truth

If ray wanted everlasting glory he should have taken Nunn, not lalonde

 

Point to a factual error. Explain where the interpretation is faulty. You made no counterargument. Can you?

 

Please correct the above sentence. Im no grammatical wizard but that is painful to read.

 

Thats an interestig perspective for sure.

Ther have been many fan favourite, macho bullies, savage barbarian beasts throughout history, from John L Sullivan onward, and they do form a crucial part of the boxing fan psyche.

Boxing fans have often failed to warm to champions like Gene Tunney and so forth.

 

Grammar correcting is gay.

 

I like this post a lot...up to a point.

But I think the hardcore boxing fan is generally willing to acknowledge the fact that while Duran and Hagler cultivated the image of take-no-prisoners destroyers, they were probably achieved the success that they had due to the skill-sets that they possessed as opposed to aggression that they displayed inside the ring. Hagler in particular was as much of a boxer as a puncher throughout much of his career, while Duran was certainly capable of boxing on his toes if required to do so.

Thus, I think the mainstream fan at the time may have perceived these two in the manner that you depict, but the hardcore fan knows that there were other factors that contributed to their suceess...And those other factors are what makes Leonard's victories over them that much more significant.

But either way, Leonard deserves his props for these victories. I think we both agree with that.

 

what glory is there to beating a lightweight when you are two divisions higher?

Mclarnin tko'd Benny leonard

Was Ray Leonard a lightweight?

like I was telling Duranimal the other day, imagine Duran as a 24 year old taking on a 29 year old moving up two weight classes and then gets beat. Are you going to turn around and boast he won the rematch? Because that's what you're doing

How stupid! just getting excited over nothing.

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And Hagler, was already heading for pasture like all the old greats. You dont see anyone bragging that Berbick whipped Ali, so why harp on what Hagler USED TO BE and not what he was at the moment?

I could say "Berbick beat the greatest or second greatest ever heavyweight" and this amounts to the same thing

I personally was more impressed in the manner Camacho manhandled Sugar Ray, the naturally bigger man. Everyone thought Hector was going to be another easy prey, another carefull selected opponent, similar to Lalonde.

Ray THOUGHT he was going to see the same Camacho that showed up in the Duran fight and instead, out comes a fighting mad Camacho who lived up to his name Macho

People thought Hector would be the one running when instead it was Ray Leonard-running for his life.

At the start of round five, ray gave the appearance of a man coming out for his execution. At that point, he had had enough of Hector's fists

I was thoroughly impressed by Hector's infighting ability and killer instincts, and the ability to mercilessly finish a bigger man.

I wasn't at all impressed with leonard. Certainly nowhere near a top 20 p4p choice.

Ray Leonard was only a runner

 

Is it not interesting, Pachilles, that you can throw out all those number ones, yet Leonard is not considered number one at welterweight? Why do Duran and Hagler get number one rankings, but Leonard doesn't? What did Duran and Hagler do to be recognized as the best or arguably the best lightweight and middleweight respectively, yet Leonard doesn't rank so highly at welter? One of the reasons Leonard doesn't rank so highly at welterweight is that he lost - and dramatically so - to the former lightweight champion. That's the same thing that takes Ross down a peg.

You are rationalizing the historical record to save your perception of Leonard. Duran beat Leonard prime for prime and beat him convincing, not only by outpunching him, but by outboxing him. We all know Duran quit in the rematch. No one can say Leonard made him quit. The rubbermatch was disgraceful. Leonard ran like a rabbit. The only time he engaged Duran left him looking like a mugging victim. Hearns made Leonard look almost completely inadequate until tiring at the end. And Hearns avenged the loss by putting Leonard on the canvas twice and outpointing him in the rematch. And Hagler beat Leonard - a shopworn Hagler at that.

Indeed, it is what it is, and if you saw things through objective eyes rather than seeing things through fanboy eyes you would see things as they are. Leonard is not recognized at the top of any division because he never conducted his career as a champion because he knew he could never last as champion. He simply wasn't the best of his generation. He was detroned by Duran! He was almost detroned by Hearns - and was in any case made to look completely ordinary.

"Please tell me of one boxer in the entire history of the sport who has three more impressive scalps?" Only Duran-Leonard I was impressive and only because Duran beat Leonard so convincingly. But neither Leonard-Hearns matches were impressive. And the Hagler fight was boring. Leonard ran, spun, slapped, punched low, posed - there was no scrap. Leonard-Duran II and III weren't scraps, either. What are you talking about here? Want to see impressive scraps? Watch Hagler-Hearns, Hagler-Mugabi, Hagler-Hamsho I.