Frazier vs Holmes

George ,Sonny.
Apart from them?
I would pick Dempsey,Louis,Lewis, Marciano, maybe Tyson,to stop him ,but not early.
What I meant was he approached greatness during the FOTC,
his desire , will, and readiness to accept punishment that night ,were allmost unparralled in the heavyweight division ,imo.

 

Gets very tough then.

 

McVey,

All them dudes' mentioned, except for, "Dempsey and Marciano" would certainly be real bad news for '71 Fraizer.......... Of course the others being peaked too......
:thumbsup

MR.BILL

 

What makes you say Cooney had late power. His latest KO was an 8th rd. TKO over GG Maldonado (who was Ko'd earlier many times) the latest after that was a 6th rd Ko. Gerry's best win was over an older Jimmy Young and he stopped him on cuts (Young did not go down) In honestly I liked the way Gerry blew out Norton and Lyle but they were sitting targets. Frazier beat some young prime bangers. Quarry may have not been a killer puncher but I seen him KO Mac Foster and Hurt Ron Lyle Badly and put Ron in the survival mode but Quarry dominated him. As far as Bonavena Frazier fought him in like his 10th fight but the rematch was one-sided. I dont think anyone would question Frazier having late power, certainly not Ali or Buster Mathis

 

I didn't say he had late power, I asked how the hell you could say he did not have ,given he only went over 8 rds once in his life ?
Frazier was an accumulation puncher,he wore you down .Mathis took multiple shots before he gassed because of poor conditioning and a torrent of body shots,over 11 rds.
It was Joe's 12 th fight when he fought Oscar,but I agree, he was matched tough that night.
Frazier didnt really meet bangers ,Durham matched him very shrewdly ,especially after the near disaster against Oscar.
I am a fan of Frazier's he had balls as big as a building, but I just fancy Holmes to decision him.:good

 

I think Cooney proved against Holmes that he had good power late into their epic '82 classic fight of the decade in Vegas........ Cooney hooked Holmes real good in the balls in round 9 in which he was penelized by Mills Lane..... I thought Cooney proved that at age 25 and at 225 pounds and in 100 degree heat, that he showed good power and stamina before being hammered in round 13 by the great Lawrence Holmes...... Cooney's "Greenery" is what caught up to him after round 10...... Not a lack of power or ability......... Holmes simply proved too good for Cooney in the championship rds........ Peace.....

MR.BILL

 

How do you see the Cooney that Holmes beat going against Frazier Bill?

 

Well, of course Frazier is the more heart and soul fighter... But Cooney had huge height, reach and range on Frazier..... Plus, Cooney's hook was more powerful..... I don't know...... The '70 to '72 Frazier up against the 1980 to '82 Cooney is a hard pressed call for me to make...... Styles make fights...... I guess I'll pick Cooney by KO in a wicked fight..... No way "Frazier-Cooney" goes the distance....
:bbb

MR.BILL

 

Who do you think was the more durable Cooney or Frazier?

 

That too is tuff to call, since both Cooney and Frazier took hellacious shots from both "Ali & Holmes" who were merely good punchers at best, and yet, both Cooney and Frazier folded like lawn chairs when they ate the leather of "Foreman & Spinks."

BUT! Key factor....... Cooney's chin did look weak in 1990 at age 33 against Foreman...... But Foreman has a way of making guys' chins look weak.....

I'll grant Frazier the edge in toughness..........:hat

MR.BILL

 

Ok, you take Cooney over Frazier.

How about 82 Cooney vs Marciano and Dempsey?

 

Holmes could box on his toes and pump a tough jab 15 rounds great chin great strategy and consistent. Post exile Ali could out box him and he could not move like a pre exile Ali. Frazier has rock hard punching and a great chin but Holmes took Norton Shavers Weavers Witherspoons Holyfields Mccals Cooneys punches why not Frazier

 

Again, styles make fights.......... "Marci and Demps" are without a doubt the GREATER and more HISTORICAL fighters, but an '82 Cooney was unbeaten and ****ing huge with power in that left-hook....... If Cooney gets off with hooks very early on, Cooney wins...... If Cooney fails to land bombs within the first 4 rds, Cooney falls apart and gets broken down....

Note:

Nobody at heavyweight can withstand Cooney's hook to the head and liver from 1980 to 1982......... I'm talking about early on in the fight when Cooney is fresh as a daisy...... After 4 rds, it gets tricky......

The 25 year old and 225 pound Cooney who fought Holmes in 1982 surely was better trained and coached than Jesse Willard was aginst Dempsey back in 1919.....

Willard was in-shape against Johnson at 230 pounds in 1915.......... Willard was 245 and flabby for Dempsey in '19.........

MR.BILL

 

I was never a true fan of Cooney boy back in the early 80s.... I smelled a hype / con going on there......... But Cooney was big and powerful without a doubt........ Cooney lacked dedication in the long run, but he had ability and some talent to box / fight....... He had that "Punchers" chance when he was young and unbeaten prior to 1983......

MR.BILL:bbb

 

Frazier