who is the best overall boxer of this five at JWW

Shut up.

...Manny had three fights at Featherweight and he failed to win them all. He isn't the best Featherweight of the decade, anyone who thinks otherwise need to take up golf.

Manny had one fight at 140lbs, he is not number one on this list either.

...****in' *******s. atsch

Side note: Neither Hatton or Cotto are ATG's.

...and neither is Marquez.

 

I really like this line up, theres some real style clashes. Heres how i think things would go H2H:

Pac vs Pryor - 60/40 Pac UD or Pryor KO late stoppage
Pac Vs Chavez - Pac 55/45 SD
Pac Vs Tszyu - 50/50 Pac KO late stoppage or Tszyu KO early stoppage
Pac Vs Hatton - Pac KO early stoppage(cant really say otherwise)
Pryor Vs Chavez - Chavez 55/45 SD
Pryor Vs Tszyu - Pryor 70/30 KO late stoppage
Pryor Vs Hatton - Pryor 80/20 KO early stoppage
Chavez Vs Tszyu - 60/40 Chavez UD or Tszyu KO late soppage
Chavez Vs Hatton - 60/40 Chavez close UD or Hatton SD
Tszyu Vs Hatton - 50/50 Tszyu late stoppage or Hatton UD

With Pryor, Chavez and Hatton being swarmers, Tszyu has a rough ride here and in my opinion Pac has a favourable ride. Hatton would have to clash with Pryor head on, with Pryor amazing chin and Hatton's suspect chin, i feel its almost a certain win for Pryor. Chavez is a very technical swarmer and also has an amazing chin, Pryor was often wide open, i feel Chavez has the advantage. Tszyu has better one punch KO power over all these big punchers, so although i wouldnt favour him, he has a fair chance against Chavez. Chavez is the most technical which i believe to be a weakness of Pac's, although his swarming style doesnt compliment that advantage against a guy like Pac, and its pretty much a toss up.

 

The proper list is as follows at 140lbs.

1. Kosta Tszyu
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Aaron Pryor
4. Ricky Hatton
5. Manny Pacquiao.

 

Scroll up and read. I never said he was the best featherweight at all or at JWW. I rated him 5th, the very bottom. But H2H(which means they actually fight..it doesnt mean im saying he has a resume there or dominance there or anything of the sort so stop taking my words out of context), H2H at JWW i'd favour him to beat most of them. And my post was a reply to your post and the latest new fad of talking of Pacman like he hasnt accomplished anything significant.

Cotto will be known as an ATG 15 years from now, he is painfully underrated and probably has the toughest resume of the decade, he's fought the best available and lost only to a brick sporting Margarito and the P4P no.1.

Hatton is also very unfairly underrated and will be known as an ATG, only losing to the no.1/no.1 P4P best of the decade. He was incredibly dominant at JWW.

Marquez will be known as an ATG without a doubt. He is easily on par with Barrera and Morales, always fights the best, and gave Pacman his two hardest fights to date.

All these three guys are lacking in ATG status is a healthy, nourished dose of nostalgia.

 

Marquez is not on par with those two. Boxing fans are fickle, they forget that both Morales and Barrera were fighting better level competition during their respective primes, and both Morales and Barrera have fought and beat better opposition than Marquez. Marquez is maybe 20-30 spots below those two. :good

You're dead wrong regarding Miguel Cotto and Ricky Hatton. In order to be considered an ATG, in my estimation, not do you have to fight and beat the great fighters of your own era, but you have to do it over a sustained period of time. Ricky and Cotto have been standout fighters of their own era, but neither of them have beat a Morales level fighter or a Pacquiao level fighter, something both Barrera and Morales have done respectively. On top of that, they've had success in three divisions, and they remained at the top for well over 10 years. Neither of those are ATG's, and if you want to know the truth of it, most of the top 10 would have beaten the Oscar that got in the ring with Manny.

Manny's incredible, he'll go down as the best of his own era, and that's all without having to talk up guys like Cotto and Hatton as being all-time greats. Get a little perspective.

 

I'm sorry but i disagree with you, Addie.

Cotto has beaten Shane Mosley. Zab Judah(we laugh at this now, but Judah was a rare breed of raw talent, lineal champ and a top 5 P4P at one point, his fall from grace has effectively taken Cotto's win out of your perspective. Quintana, Torres, Corley, Malignaggi, N'dou and Clottey were all tough fights at an elite level. Don't get it twisted, im not calling these great wins, but they are certainly far from cherrypicked resume building wins. They were the toughest fight available in the division. Cotto is a beautiful boxer, i'm sure you can see that? He has been technically dominant. His loss to Margarito is tainted and his only other loss is to as you say, an incredibly, very special fighter in Pacquiao.

Ricky Hatton, maybe your right. It maybe my native bias. But you have to be fair. Many posters on here are highly favourable of dominance when calling past fighters ATG's. Hatton was incredibly dominant at JWW for a long time. He didn't have ATG wins(with exception of Kostya) but he was clearly above the elite contenders of his time, just clearly not at the pinnacle of champions. Those champions being the two best P4P fighters of Hatton's era.

Juan Manuel Marquez. Okay maybe not such a stacked resume. But he is sure as hell a competitor at the highest tier. Barrera and Casamayor were maybe shot yes, but that wont harm his resume 15-20 years from now. He ballooned up to WW to challenge Floyd in a complete mismatch, he lost but he took the challenge. He travelled to ****ing, Indonesia for pennies to fight the brilliant, future of the sport Chris John, he lost but he took the challenge. He proved to be Pacquiao's equal twice. If heart, fighting spirit and courage count for anything, Marquez is right up there, couple that with a very impressive record, i think he'll be remembered as an ATG.

I think you may have a higher standard to what qualifies a fighter as an ATG. But i believe these three, Cotto especially, has better names on his resume than half the obscure, little bit less than ATG names that get thrown around here everyday. Whether im right or wrong, whether you're right or wrong, i believe that generally in boxing media(esb classic is not the be and end all), these 3 fighters will be recognised and referred to as ATG's in 15-20 years time.

 

He's also STILL sporting an avatar of the absolutely average Linares

 

First of all, Manny has proved his superiority to Morales. Pac-Possible top 30. Morales-Might get into a top 100.

2nd off; Mosley for Cotto?

3rd off-I agree with the rest of this:good

 

Chavez
Pryor
Tszyu
Pacman
Hatton

 

I respect your list, but Chavez would stop Pacman in the late rounds. Chavez was strong and Pacman getting into a war with him would not be good. Chavez would wear him out and the fight would be stopped. and Chavez would stop Hatton in the mid rounds. I like your list, but I think Chavez was a little better than what your list shows.

 

Call me a nuthugger but i believe Manny Pacquiao is incredible and has achieved great things already. A true underdog if there ever was one. Time flies in the present but stands still in the past. With a clear perspective, a few decades from now i think he'll be seen as a top 15 P4P. The Mayweather fight will happen and if he wins that then in my opinion he is a lock for top 15 P4P

 

Prime Morales > Past prime Mosley. :good
Prime Pacquiao > Past prime Mosley

Worthy of note also is that Margarito was a pretty good fighter, not a great one, but that's the only significant victory in Mosley's career since his second victory over Oscar De La Hoya way back in 2003. Not to discredit Mosley, but Cotto's victory over him was both disputable and came at a time when Mosley had past his absolute peak. A great win, but to say Cotto is an ATG is to have extremely low standards.

...I don't know why we're discussing Pacquiao vs Morales, I never even disputed that Manny had proven his superiority over Erik? :huh

 

Such as whom? :huh

 

Chavez
Pac
Pryor
Tszyu
Hatton

 

According to him, Arguello.