Why does Ali get so highly rated p4p

are you a member of the greb and langford beat all club ??

 

Nah, I don't rate h2h, too much speculation. I go mostly by resume. And Jones is far, far below the other three when it comes to this.

 

its h2h for me and i couldn't see fitzsimmons coping with jones' hand speed for very long.
charles would have had the best record had he been given the breaks that white fighters had.he could have won the middle-weight title at a canter,won the light-heavy and he would be above sugar ray robinson in the p4p stakes.
imho:good

 

Langford/Fitz fought in inferior pre-historic eras against largely untrained unskilled men. Hopkins and Toney are better than anyone either man shared a ring with

 

:good

 

Ali has to be counted as top p4p. he defeated foreman and frazier and norton way past his prime( which i think was around when he was about 25 fighting cleveland williams and ernie terrel etc.) in his prime he looked invinceable. he was ove 200 lbs, a big heavyweight, yet he was faster and had smoother combinations and footwork than most lightweights. I think his size makes him a more valid candidate for p4p greatness. Imagine how fast he would be if he was 10 stone.

 

he was lightning fast for a heavy:goodhe made all the other heavies at the time (mid 60's) look like they were in slow motion.

 

Put Jones in the early 1900s under the rules then and he get's sparked out by Fitz. Put Fitz in the mid/late 90s under he rules then and Jones makes him look like a fool. It's pretty much a different sport and hardly comparable.

 

Yeah, right :nut just again proves your lack of understanding of boxing-eras.

 

Why does the time machine make Jones fight in slow mo, no, Jones lands his fast shots and knocks Fitz out whenever he chooses regardless of eras. How many top black fighters did Fitz beat anyway

 

Because his style is not suited to the rules of the era of the day. Fitz would weather the early storm with clinching and infighting, punish Jones to the body and knock him out between round 15 and 20. I have no doubt about that. There would be nobody protecting Jones from beeing clinched like against Ruiz. And Ruiz landed some shots at Jones. If Fitz would have landed them Jones would have been knocked out.

Where does the highlighted part come from? Fitz fought most of the best fighters of his time from mw to hw. Jones did not. That's the difference.

 

Interesting yeah - Never thought about it like that - as far as the range in weight, say Ali, fought between (or anyone really) - I wonder what sort of a difference there is to say a welterweight going up 20 pounds and trying to perform at as high a performance level?? To be honest though I think there was a significant drop off in the level of Ali's performances when he was anything over 215 personally - i think it really showed when he was not in top shape - probably because he looked so amazing when in tip top shape - although i suppose even out of shape Ali makes most look pretty slow and average really - the thing is for me is personally a think of the Ali from 1970 onwards as being a comebacking fighter (nowhere near the fighter he was post-67) yet he was still beating great (and very dangerous) heavyweights who themselves were in their own absolute primes!! Amazing really - did ANYONE ever do that at heavyweight?? I can't even think of anyone who would be capable of doing that had they been in the same situation - truly amazing fighter old Muhammad

 

Good point. Ali was active in a 50 lbs range, 188-236,5 lbs, and beat world class opponents in most of that range. Not even Duran or Robinson can lay claim to that.

Looking at it this way, maybe he´s actually underrated p4p?

 

He beat the best in the strongest Heavyweight era. He beat several ATG's, his resume is exceptional. And in a H2H sense, hes a fairly sized, tall rangey HW with amazing speed and footwork. Then when he lost his speed and legs, his amazing chin held up to defeat the monster punchers of the 70's, its hard to favour someone to beat him, anyone