Why do you think Jones wouldnt KO Fitz in that era, Jones would be 1 of the biggest punchers fitz faced, his speed means he lands first and is near impossible for Fotz to hit, he is a brutal body puncher, his bodyshot KO of Hill looks more brutal than Fitzs KO of Corbett AND Jones was wearing big padded gloves making it harder to score bodyshot KOs. Even if Jones doesnt get Fitz out early (he would) he had no problem with going 20rounds, he boxed straight after playing a basketball game once. The only problem Jones would have with this era is the higher chance of hand injuries
Because Ali's style is suited to beat any men. Big, small, etc. And he proved that to a good extent. In any case, he's underrated P4P.
But this is the crucial point that you never get your head around: Head to head is pure speculation. The fact that we all work 9-5 jobs is proof of that. Resume is fact. Resuame has to be earned. Jones had the chance, and perhaps the ability to try to match the resumes of Fitzsimmons, Langford, Greb etc. Instead he chose to fight refuse collectors. That is why he will never be worthy to carry the above mentioned fighters spit buckets, and all the speculation and apologies in the world won't make any difference.
Totally baseless claim, especially given that Langford shared the ring with certified ATGs like Joe Gans, Joe Walcott, Jack Johnson, etc. At least 2 or 3.
Earlier, I was about to submit a superior version of this post, but lost it to an untimely crash. (Thanks, Firefox!) My apologies, but this is the best I can do for a reconstruct after expending that time and mental energy. Ali was deep into his exile when the May 5, 1969 issue of Sports Illustrated reported that the speed of Ali's jab was measured by an omegascope. It smashed a balsa board 16.5 inches away, covering the distance in 4/100 of a second. Jimmy Jacobs said that on film tests with a synchronizer, Ali's jab was faster than SRR's, and Robby was known for his speed. What do you suppose the speed of Ali's jab would have measured at if he'd been tested on the date he demolished Cleveland Williams? This is akin to the power of Pipino Cuevas being measured as greater than George Foreman's. Muhammad was a heavyweight, and yet he may have been the fastest man in boxing regardless of weight when he was at his peak. In the martial arts, it generally doesn't matter how strong someone is if the opponent is faster. Beyond this, his ability to take a punch and withstand sustained punishment was far beyond what could rationally be claimed for any non heavyweight. Consider his endurance. He stopped Bonavena and Wepner in 15 rounds, would have done the same to Frazier in Manila if Futch had let Joe continue (referee Carlos Padilla said he would have given Frazier about 45 seconds to make a rally before calling a halt), and he had Shavers going at the final bell after a fight in which he might have sustained more brain damage than in all his other matches combined. He also stopped an over trained Jimmy Ellis in the twelfth and final round, and chose not to duplicate this when he could easily have finished off Buster Mathis (who barely got to the end despite Ali's reticence). He took ridiculous heavyweight body punishment from Chuvalo in 1966, and looked fresh as a daisy for the final round, and dominated Terrell over the same distance. (Keep in mind that Chuvalo had previously gone 15 rounds with Terrell while Ali had never gone that length before, and that Terrell himself had won three consecutive WBA Title bouts over 15 rounds. It didn't matter.) Kuala Lumpur was a humid blast furnace when he rematched Bugner over 15 rounds, and Joe made him do most of the work. Muhammad was fresh enough during the rest period before the final round to walk over to Joe Frazier's broadcast position and jaw with him a bit. That was in the midday sun, and while I'm not sure how it compares to the nighttime climate of Maxim-Robinson, it does suggest that Ali could handle stifling heat and humidity a little better than Robby. The body punishment he outlasted in Manila was off the charts. A strong case could be made that Ali had the best championship distance endurance of anybody during the classic 15 round era during. A case can be made that he won the remainder of the final round of the FOTC after getting up, and that it could have been scored as just a 10-9 round for Frazier. What if he had a fast metabolism, was a health food fanatic with a light appetite, a fitness enthusiast who practiced marathon running as a hobby, or had a personal trainer like Mackie Shilstone? He had the same height and reach as Bob Foster, and is nearly four years younger. Bob is considered by many to be the greatest light heavyweight champion of all time. Does he even have a chance to win that title with an elusive and high endurance speedster like Ali in the way? The super heavyweights of the post championship distance era would have a miserable time dealing with the speed of the 201 pound Ali of the Cooper rematch.
I agree, PowerPuncher cant seem to grasp this though. Although I do agree with him that modern fighters would tend to fare better against the pioneers in head to head match-ups that isnt the point, boxing would never have improved without guys like Fitz, Langford and Greb, it would have stayed in its prehistoric style. They were pioneers and they changed the sport. Also I agree about resume, if you fight the best fighters of your time then how can someone come along a hundred years later and start saying, 'he looks rubbish', thats just insulting. Fitz fought the best fighters from middleweight to heavyweight, he couldnt do anymore than that. Maybe he should have invented the time machine and fast forwarded a hundred years to fight Jones to make PowerPuncher happy. I just know if Jones won he'd say 'I told you so', like he was in on something everyone else wasnt. He's never got the point and never will. Jones is a modern day great and he is up there all-time but he never fought the level of competition Fitz did in his heyday and thats why he doesnt rank as high.
"P4P" was supposed to be used to compare boxers of different weight classes, not undermine the heavier ones. Ali had speed, a great chin, great ring generalship and reasonable power. How can he not be high on any list? I ****ing hate the "P4P" concept purely because there is so much bias for midgets. It's not all about weight, it's about comparing skills without a difference in weight affecting hypothetical match ups.
Personally ,I can't rank lower weight category fighter against heavyweights. Compare? Yes. But not rank. A flyweight is not just a heavyweight minus 100 pounds give or take. He is a flyweight.
Replace Roy Jones with James Jefferies then you have something. Agreed, Bob Fitzsimmons P4P is top 3 all-time.
WOW!What a question! It's the equivolant of saying "Why is Michael Jordan considered good" considering how high he could jump? WOW!:yep:blurp