Sonny Liston, why is he ranked so highly?

Rumour has it that Liston barely trained for the second Patterson fight but he made up for that by ending things quickly with some nice combinations:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcq0ns0Eo8I[/ame]


Not a half-bad double jab:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tgv5rzKMn4[/ame]

6:42

 

He's a better boxer. I do agree with this. But Foreman gets the edge in toughness, heart, and durability I think. I also think Foreman's jab is underrated. And he's going to be the taller and stronger fighter. Liston has to reach up at him.

 

:roll:

I bring facts, you bring dribble. Why don't you and Naysayer go discuss "tomato cans, bums, and club fighters" and "Poines, blown ups, and chinny perennials" Just don't except me to respond to any of this elementary copy and paste trash.

 

I'm not sure who wins, I'm not convinced Foreman is the stronger man, Liston supposedly pushed him around and had him running when they sparred, although Foreman was much younger then. Foreman is also an underrated athlete but I think you're underrating Listons toughness hes fought a long fight with a broken jaw, he took big hitting Williams best too

 

Well he does. He KOed more durable opponents, and has a higher slugger percentage while fighting in his 40's.

I actually think you got it wrong. I think you're confusing from what he said as actually being, "Liston was the first man to stand up to my power."

Lyle is like a more durable Cleveland Williams. I'm sure he could've knocked down Liston, too.

Young? Bugner was a big boxer type, not a slick-ster though. Larry Holmes...

But who did Liston beat? I'm sure a 65 Liston losses to Young, too.

Chuvalo, Frazier I, maybe the Peralta bouts. Don't get decieved. He's got some tree cutting clubbing shots, but when he maintain disciplines he can have some fast combos going. He's definitely faster than Liston to me.

 

Good thread.

 

The defense rests...

 

Because Liston has better technique there's always a good display of his punching. I think Foreman is faster at his best with his combos and I would love to see a side by side analysis.

 

In other words, we disagree on observations.

I'm not saying other guys could outjab him because Ali did. I'm saying they could, because the jab contest between Liston and Ali was a whitewash. Not even close.

To make an illustrative comparison: i wouldn't pick any LHW over a peak Frazier, ever. Not because Joe beat Foster, but because of the EXTREMELY one-sided way in which he completely annihilated him.

Off to bed now. Good night.:good

 

I don't think I could ever under-estimate Liston. I give him all the credit in the world as I can realistically in a H2H setting. I do think Foreman is stronger, and Liston pushing a novice around doesn't really dispel my thoughts.

Liston proved toughness early on. But when he got lazier in life and complacent he lost his heart. Foreman, while mentally distraught never just settled for the 10 count.

Everyone talks about how much of a monster Liston is H2H. The fact that you are unsure on who wins shows how much Liston gets boosted. Maybe Foreman is underrated, or maybe Liston isn't as much as he is made out to be.