I'm a huge Ali fan and yes, Joe has every right to feel angry and bitter. Ali's words and actions, and the actions of a lot of people going along with him (*cough*Gumbel*cough*) were over the line and hurtful to Joe, his family, and his kids. And afterward the vast majority of the general public basically papered over it, in effect told Joe to "suck it up" and lionized the guy who tormented him. Joe has plenty of reason to be bitter. As for whether he should let it go, I think for his own personal well being he should. Carrying around that much anger and bitterness is not good for a person, especially to do so for so long a time. While I'd certainly love for him to do so, but in the end, only Joe can judge whether to let it go and move on.
That documentary on HBO not long ago made me realize why Frazier was and still is so bitter. After the Thrilla in Manila, if I'm not mistaken Ali had some words with Frazier's young son Marvis, aplogized and let Marvis know that it was just all an act to sell the fight........... When Marvis let his dad Joe know about the apology, Joe Frazier told his son something that made all the sense in the world to me........." He did'nt aplogize to me son."
maybe at that particular time, straight after the fight, he thought joe wouldn't let him in his dressing room, let alone listen to him. however he has had loads of time to apologize to his face though.
Joe has received unmeasurable benefit from winning and losing to Ali far beyond his natural ability. For most, his encounters with Ali defines him as a fighter and as a man, thats what I think is the double edge sword with Joe.
From a traditional standpoint i truly agree with that. The main conflict was Joes simple and staunch character and outlook though. He looked infantile next to Alis world experience, complex personality and gift of the gab. The culture, politics, race problems of the time had Joe Frazier in unfamiliar waters fighting Ali and I dont think he understood that Ali wasn't just fighting the man Frazier but the world superimposed in his opponants.
He was justified in his feelings toward Ali.Frazier should probably let it go, but it's not that simple. Ali also slept with a lot of dogs, as Jim Brown attests.
He was justified in being angry at the time because Ali said some pretty awful stuff but he should let go now.
Bull****. Ali was an ******* to everyone and he knew he was and just kept doing it. Frazier didn't look "infantile" next to Ali, he looked like a regular guy just doing his job. Ali had no reason to go after him like that, but he did, because he knew idiots would lap it up. Ali was a bully and Frazier has no respect for people who treat others like ****, just because they can. The measure of a man's character is in what they do when no one's watching... when push comes to shove, Ali's a dick and Frazier is an honorable man.
Does anyone know or has heard of Ali actually apologizing to Joe Frazier????......because I got the sense that a true face to face and sincere apology from Ali himself is all it would have taken for Frazier to let it go. Could Ali be so egotistical even to this day not to issue that apology?
Top reply Rattler. :yep I take your word for it and I believe Frazier to be an honorable man aswell. I believe Frazier looked relatively 'infantile' next to Ali because Muhammad just wasn't a 'regular guy doing his job', he was clearly a man doing something special as indicated in his renaming by Elijah Muhammad the leader of the nation of Islam. Ali was a great man in many walks of life, the integrity of his quotations, the history of his achievements and the immensity of his cultural/social and political significance of the times speak for itself when it comes to what is done behind closed doors of a truly good character. No ones saying he isn't egotisical though, Ali was elitist, but among the elite or his opposition, all great men from Napoleon to Caeser would eat their competition because power is made by power taken. Joe Frazier would of obviously known what he was getting himself into with Ali and couldn't compete with him on some levels. It's a shame that Ali did it with such little taste and fairness in regards to his boxing oppositions personality and public profile. But if you remember it was the public profile set up by the media to defeat the loud mouthed war dodger. From one point of view it's sort of like shooting a fly with a bazooka when you consider his opponents were just athletes and honorable common men but they were also ideas set up as strawmen for larger issues. Like "whats my name!!! whats my name!!!" to ernie terrell. If Ali has never really apologised for his dishonoring acts to Frazier in their humble ages then you'd have to see that as filthy mark against Muhammad and also a tick in the box for Frazier being a stubborn old twat who can't get over ****.
I think Ali needs to be honest for peace to be made. Promoting the fight is one thing, but in this case Ali meant to hurt Frazier's feelings, and insulted his ethnicity. If Ali could admit he was cruel in his younger days, and tell Frazier he was wrong, then I think there could be better tidings between the two.
These are questions for Joe Frazier and Joe Frazier alone. None of our concern really. Personally I think Ali acted a *****, and was a complete *******.BUT maybe if I was in the public eye people might form a negative opinion of me too. We've all been assholes sometimes, I'm sure. Frankly, I think there are more important things to concern ourselves with than the morals of the Ali-Frazier animosity, esp. as in essence it's just too punch-drunk broken-down old grandfathers with shaky memories and long-past youthfulness. And anyway, I think the real moral debate surrounding Ali and Frazier lies somewhere else.