Sonny Liston, why is he ranked so highly?

i remember whithurst landing a right hand over the jab and a quick flurry early in the 1st round and liston did a bit of a jig. its a while since i seen that.
zech fought back well off the ropes and landed left hooks inside listons right- they made no impresion however but landed clean as he was coming in. somebody beter than zech would have liston in trouble im sure.

 

Whitehurst landed a single counter right hand as Liston was coming forward.

Most of the men who had any kind of success against Liston were backing up and then exploded with unexpected flurries as he was chasing them. Still, it's not like Liston had any trouble beating the likes of Whitehurst, Zech.

 

neither did the rest of the guys who fought these two. zech and whitehurst were never rated contenders. archie moore Kod whithurst quicker and he had seen beter days by then. Archie was a great puncher and crafty but if liston KOs all the guys who come to him why did old moore twice do a beter job on whitehurst?

 

Because Whitehurst didn't come at him.

 

he beat him to the punch on the way in though, its kind of the same thing. liston did do a dance, his legs felt it.
I would be intrested to see how liston would get on with a bonavena or a chuvalo, id give him the edge naturaly but its a little hasty to asume he blows away all who come to him even if he is a guy you dont want to stand in front of.

 

He beat him to the punch once in a 10 round fight.

You could pick occasions from every fighter's career and say they would struggle against this and that but you have to look at their overall careers. Mayweather was rocked by Corley, beat to the punch in the early rounds against Judah, arguably lost against Castillo the first time, had his nose broken against journeyman Augustus yet he'd be the favorite against any boxer today.

Rocky Marciano struggled greatly with Tiger Ted Lowry but KO'd Jersey Joe Walcott, Joe Louis, Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles. It happens.

 

good point.
my problem with liston is how he defended as champ. Also to make the ATG top ten he has to beat his foes beter than anyone else. sure he did this with patterson but ingo did beter against machen. moore did beter agianst king, richer and whitehurst, mac foster did beter against folly, satterfield already matched him against wiliams, jimmy cousins did beter against dejohn, wes bascom did beter against summerlin. this is not the case as often with joe louis's foes.

 

He was still more important than Harris or Machen. Not only had Machen already been crushed in 1 round by Johansson, but his rep had taken another big hit after that when he reportedly spent his rematch with Folley "clowning around and making faces" (according to reports) and giving away every round.

He did enough to establish superiority, but that's what most fighters do on their way to becoming a consensus #1 contender; that's not quite the same as cleaning out a division. Ali beat at least as many contenders on his way to a title shot as Liston had (and in a much shorter span of time) and clearly distinguished himself as the #1 contender; but you really don't hear him getting the same kind of praise for having "cleaned out" the rankings as Liston does. As you can see from this thread, Liston even gets credit for beating someone like Nino Valdes, yet Ali gets little or no credit for beating fighters like Chuck Powell, Alex Miteff, and Alonzo Johnson - even though Valdes had lost to all of them just before Liston beat him. Liston's pre-title accomplishments do get distorted and exaggerated in many respects.

 

Machen was ranked #4 at the time they signed to fight, behind Johansson, Liston, and Folley (not necessarily in that order), with Folley and Johansson having already beaten him. Johansson had been the world HW champ up until only a month before Liston and Machen signed.

Every fight Liston had post-Folley was a "final eliminator" no matter who he fought, because he had already guaranteed himself an eventual title shot with his win over Folley (provided he didn't lose in the interim).

 

Seems like it.

From Sports Illustrated's report on the Liston-Folley fight:
"The following day it was announced he will fight Eddie Machen, the No. 4 heavyweight, in Seattle on September 7."

Ring magazine's rankings at the end of 1960 have Johansson rated #2, with Machen #3 and Folley #4.

It doesn't make sense that Johansson would drop so many spots in the rankings after only just losing the title. Normally, a deposed champ is dropped only to the #1 spot.

But that had no bearing on who Machen was. Liston's fight with Albert Westphal the following year was billed as a "final eliminator" as well, even though no one on this side of the Atlantic had any clue who Westphal was. If Liston had been willing/able to fight Johansson in that time, that would've been another "eliminator" as well.