Earnie Shavers & Cleveland Williams: Who Da Man?

I think you are right. The opinions here will basically be who you like the most, and I am a Shavers fan, so I go with Shavers. Both are vulnerable punchers.

 

What a slugfest. Don't know who wins but it doesn't go past 5th round

 

Shavers was KO'd by A tough chinned but amateur Pro in Ron Stander, Ron took his best and wAS A BLOODY MESS WHEN HE KO'D EARNIE...SHAVERS WAS STOPPED OR HURT IN EVERY FIGHT of quality, i think it was poor stamina, well he had a big engine but a small tank...Williams had a win/loss record vs Terrel but lost to the quality fighter as well. Its anyones fight

 

I give the edge to Williams, based on his handspeed and superior endurance. The Big Cat had a number of quality wins over the distance, and actually dropped Daniels on his way to a 12 round decision in his last significant win. Cleveland had very good late round power, and could get off the deck to win, as he did against Turnbow. (Mel Turnbow's record makes him seem like nothing, but he had a reputation within boxing circles as a hard hitter. Liston had tremendous respect for Turnbow's hitting ability, and Chuvalo rated him alongside DeJohn and Foreman as a puncher.)

 

Shavers was a novice when he fought Stander. It was his 13th pro fight and Shavers had no amateur career. He hadn't fought anybody until Stander.

 

Earnie was an AAU amateur boxer and won the championship & definately had some pedigree before turning pro. The guy w/o amateur pedigree was the guy in the other corner.

 

You're right he did have a brief amateur career of 26 fights but I still don't see the Ron Stander fight of being indication of anything much. Stander was the first half-decent opponent Shavers had fought as a pro outside of Stan Johnson whom he had lost to. Stander was a tough guy if nothing else.

 

Well, then go through Shavers list of real rated fighter and see how many he beat. His best win was Norton, I seen him get staggered by an old and shot Ellis before blasting him and he beat a 7-3 record Jimmy Young then drew with a 13-4-1 version (who most felt he lost to) but then he lost to Quarry,Lyle, Stallings,Ali,Cobb,Holmes,Mercado

As far as the Stander fight and his novice status...Shavers had 13 fights, Stander had 9 and it was a battle where two young pro's bombed each other with Stander taking it better than Earnie.

Earnie could wack but had less finishing skills than Bob Satterfeild and hurt a lot of fighters that he was not able to finish

I pay attention to a fighters amatuer career and early pro career and take a close look at there losses and how they corrected the fault that caused there losses.

Sometimes even great fighters can not overcome there amateur flaws in the pro's, they just avoid the type of opponent that can expose the flaw

 

Your points are valid, but also a tad over simplified. Shavers was a man who during the early to mid 70's, was fighting 8-15 times per year and easily dispatching respectable journeyman and trial horses in ways that a lot of other fighters couldn't... When you fight as often as Earnie did, you're bound to pick up a few losses here and there. Shavers also had some wins that were somewhat unerrated like Roy WIlliams, Howard Smith, Henry Clark and a few others... Norton was past his prime, perhaps even shot, but he was coming off the best run of his career, and still appeared to be in great shape.. Earnie blasted him in one. The Bugner fight I don't really count for anything due to the fact that Joe was off for some 3 years and very deconditioned, but In fairness, Shavers was past it by then as well.. I agree that the Young fight means nothing...

 

Ellis was hardly "old and shot". He was coming off 8 consecutive knockouts and looked very good until Shavers got rid of him in only one round with classic one punch KO. He was a top 3 ranked contender in the division at the time.

Jimmy Young was inexperienced in the first fight but Shavers was the only man to ever knock him out, even Gerry Cooney only stopped an old version of him on cuts. In their second fight, Shavers had Young on the canvas again and nearly KO'd him until traditionally running out of gas which allowed Young to get back in the fight. Shavers was the only man to ever knock him down. 3 months after their fight, Young took Ron Lyle to school.

Howard Smith and Henry Clark were ranked fighters, Jeff Sims and Roy Williams were big punchers, Bugner although not in his prime was always very tough to stop, Shavers did the job in only 2 rounds. Even in his losses Shavers was often impressive. He had Lyle out at the end of round 2 when bell saved him and proceeded to punch himself out in an effort to finish. Against Ali the fight could have been scored his way. Against Holmes he had Holmes seemingly out with one punch but Holmes miraculously recovered.

Still don't see the relevancy of the loss in the big picture. A lot of good pros struggled early. Make the fight 5 years later and Shavers batters him.

It's not like Satterfield finished all the fighters he fought either. 44 of his 79 opponents weren't knocked out. Satterfield hit Layne with his best and Layne came back to knock him out.

And Shavers hardly avoided anybody. No one denies Shavers's flaws but there are far better examples to use than an early career fight against Ron Stander.

 

Point I was bring out vs Stander is that Earnie fizzled when Stander took his best and kept punching, a pattern of sorts for Earnie.

Jeff Sims was a fair win, Clark, I remember was stopped by Norton and split a pair with Jack O'Halloran. As far as Williams being a puncher thats a myth, he did rock Earnie badly and to his credit Shavers rebounded but the fact that he lost a decision to Glass-Jawd Richard Dunn should dispell the Myth that Williams was a puncher. Dunn was KO'd in 10 of 11 loses

I love Earnie and yes he could hit but the majority of his build up wins were over Ted Gullick,Cleo Daniels, Charlie Boston,Harold Carter,Charlie Polite(which were often decribed as cannon fodder. When Earnie stepped up vs former middleweight Vincente Rondon ( who was KO'd by Bennie Briscoe and Jose Gonzales at 160) Rondon went 10 with Shavers.

Ellis did not fight one ranked fighter in that group of 8 wins you speak of in fact none of those 8 fighters had a winning record for a total of 89-131-8 and Ellis only won 2 of his last 8 fights starting with Shavers...he was 33, not old but shot indeed. I was at the Garden with ringside tickets for that fight and the Quarry/Shavers fight to follow. Jimmy was no longer able to participate as a contender. Earnie caught him with a nice shot but Jimmy's better days were past him.