Bigger achievement - Ali/Foreman or Leonard/Hagler

2 of my fav performances from 2 of my fav boxers & actually the favourite moments of both Ali & SRL themselves - their own words.

Ali is my all time fav fighter but Leonard`s achievement was greater.

Both Foreman & Hagler were at the top of the boxing world & seen by most as unbeatable but Ali was still seen as a top, great fighter... he was a big underdog but still a great fighter.

Leonard had only fought once in over 5 yrs vs a mediocre opponent & he looked way off + no fighter had ever made a comeback to win a title in a higher division, period, never mind vs one of the greatest MWs in history.

Leonard over Hagler might just be the single best victory between elite fighters in the past 50 yrs, all things considered.

 

Ali over Foreman: Foreman more dangerous at that point than Hagler was when Leonard fought him, Ali also won comprehensively.

 

Ali's win over Foreman completely eclipses Leonard's achievement. Firstly, Ali fought a man in his prime, considered unbeatable by many, and dominated him. Leonard, on the other hand, made a challenge solely based on Hagler's eroded skills and was handed a highly disputed decision.

While what Leonard did is still impressive, regardless of your opinion of the verdict, the two achievments aren't even in the same ballpark.

 

Hagler was declining when Leonard fought him as proven in his fight with Mugabi while Foreman was in his prime at the time Ali beat him plus he was coming of a dominating win to Norton, the guy that gave Ali fits a year ago. Based on these points I have to go with Ali/Foreman.

 

yep. ali's win is from a higher level in my opinion

 

Leonard won the fight but thats another topic.

What about the size difference ?
The lay-off ?
The fact that despite Hagler looking slower v Mugabi than he did Hearns previously, he still KO`d Mugabi, beat down a man that was unbeaten, had won all his fights by KO & could hit like a mule.

No MW would have been favourite to beat Hagler on April 1987 based on that Mugabi fight, lets not get silly here... the fact that a former WW that hadnt fought in 3 yrs did it is totally remarkable. A truly brilliant & historic performance.

 

Hagler was thought to be the P4P best in the world, and the greatest southpaw in history. Only Duran had gone past 11 rounds with him. In his last three fights, he'd wiped out Hamsho, Hearns, and scored a clean knockout in a rugged match with Mugabe over 11 rounds. He was battle ready.

Ray had looked dreadful in getting dropped by fringe WW contender Kevin Howard three years earlier, and he needed the referee to prematurely save him from a guaranteed decision loss. Larry Bonds and Ayub Kalule had given him some technical problems with their southpaw styles, and now he was taking on the greatest southpaw in history. Take a look at SRL-Howard and Hagler-Mugabe, then tell me Ali/Foreman was the bigger achievement.

 

What colors my judgment is that I find Ali's knockout performance against Foreman inspiring. Leonard craftily shoeshining and stealing rounds, while fair play and on paper an even better win, reminds me of the cold business side of boxing. The smart and clever side. The 'just enough to win' side.

Ali vs Foreman, Duran vs Barkley and Barrera vs Morales among others are epic works of heroism and the romanticist inside me is incapable of giving Leonard versus Hagler a fair shake when stacked up against these.

 

Its the biggest myth in boxing that all Leonard did was flurry, he boxed beautifully on the move, traded when he had to & only threw flurries near the end of the rd in case it was up for grabs in the judges minds - nothing wrong with that, especially when you have been boxing/fighting well for the majority of the round which he had.

The only rd were I felt Leonard did too much flash & showboating was rd 12 but he still outlanded Hagler & for me, this was the hardest rd to score in the fight.

As a whole or rd by rd, either way, Leonard deserved it, not by much but still, he edged out Hagler IMO. Brilliant performance.

 

Ali-Foreman, more decisive win over a prime great heavyweight, whereas Hagler was nearing the end of his career. After Foreman's annihalation of Frazier and Norton it looked like Ali's career could have ended with that fight. Mind you, Ali definitely should have retired after that fight, it would have been a great way to bow out.

 

:roll:

 

I agree. Saying Hagler was "faded" is quite a stretch, and an insult to Leonard. Hagler wanted the fight badly, and all you have to do is watch the pre-fight stuff to see how into it he was.

Leonard edged it, bottom line. Neither fighter did much to win, but Hagler did less.

Leonard got into Hagler's head, and Hagler let himself down. It was more of an overarching achievement for Leonard than a physical whipping of Hagler in the ring.

 

Ali vs Foreman... it's that night in Africa, the legend wrapped up around the fight and the site of that invincible beast falling to the canvas. Sheridan calling the fight and the crowd going absolutely nuts over every punch landed.

Edging out an aging Marvin Hagler cannot compare to that fight IMO.