Dempsey 1919 vs Tyson 1989: What would happen?

But he didn't use any "modern" training. He trained by eating hamburgers, cutting trees and by dragging a jeep.

 

You wouldn't even last five seconds with him. He'd annihilate you with a jab, wearing far less padding on his gloves.

Absolute *****.

 

Foreman is hardly a historian and here's his top 10 HW list from his website:

George's Top 10 Heavyweights
1. Joe Louis.
To be honest with you, number two is way off. Joe Louis is in a class by himself.

2. Rocky Marciano.
Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't take that from him.

3. Jack Johnson.
A big brave cat, because he'd do whatever he wanted and get out of the way.

4. Muhammad Ali.
Put him down as the GREATEST MAN to ever box, and a hero bigger than boxing. Once Ali lost his speed, it only showed that he'd never developed a great defense.

5. Joe Frazier.
Only because he depended solely on his left hook do I rate Joe Frazier below Marciano. Marciano could hit with both hands.

6. Jack Dempsy.
Jack Dempsy's very name means strength and courage. Other than Joe Louis, there is not a name in boxing or in sports with more meaning.

7. Mike Tyson.
A phenomenon. What Mike Tyson was able to do with his speed of hand and punching power is as phenomenal as what Muhammad Ali did when he was Cassius Clay with speed of feet. Tyson deserves to be in the top ten; this is where I put him, the youngest man to become Heavyweight Champion of the World.

8. Sonny Liston.
If Sonny Liston truly had not lost his cool, had not underestimated a young Cassius Clay; and kept the same mind set that he had as a contender, history would have been a lot kinder to him. Sonny Liston could not believe Muhammad Ali was so fast and had so much courage. It just made him fall apart.

9. Floyd Patterson.
The First Two-Time Heavyweight Champion of the World.

10. Evander Holyfield.
For standing up to Mike Tyson.

 

This is where we don't agree. I say there's a difference in the way the boxers fight today.

And the most important thing of all. Training. I don't think even you can dispute that. Better methods, better understanding of the human body, better drugs.

 

What site is that?

"Lennox is beyond doubt the greatest heavyweight of all time," Foreman said. "He is not second any more. He is there at the top of the tree. He reminded me of a young George Foreman and an elusive Muhammad Ali. He has everything you want in a fighter."

Ali was with Lewis at a Canadian Football League ceremony to celebrate Lewis' KO of Tyson. "I'm here because I was the greatest," he told an ecstatic crowd in Toronto. "I'm now no longer the greatest. He's the greatest, he's the champ," he said, pointing to Lennox Lewis.

 

You would beat Jack Dempsey in a fist fight? So would you also beat Simo Haya in a shootout or Miyamoto Musashi in a sword fight? Dempsey not only fought for a living he literally fought to live. Fought to eat, to defend himself, throughout his entire life since he was an kid. By the time he reached his peak he had been studying fighting for 16 years and fighting professionally for about nine. If you're serious then you must be one of the biggest ****ing clowns ever to set foot in the classic forum. I bet you could have got Willard out in 1 round and Fulton before the fight even started.

 

And playing "Eye of the tiger" on his walkman.

 

www.georgeforeman.com

Foreman also said that Audley Harrison is the future heavyweight champion of the world. I wouldn't take everything he says too seriously.

I don't think Tunney or even Loughran are quite as "smooth" or fluid as the lower weight class boxers of the era, heavyweights in general aren't, but nonetheless they knew every trick in the book. Muhammad Ali was very impressed watching film of Gene Tunney and said he was the best boxer in the history of the division outside of himself of course.

You go down in weight and you have Henry Armstrong, perhaps a more polished Dempsey and of course the likes of Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Kid Chocolate. No one can say that those fighters couldn't box.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrzbaeX4Z-E[/ame]

2:50

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzA68zatfaQ[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QYkOYQJlqg[/ame]

 

Nobody said they couldn't box. But that in time the sport evolves. Like any other sport. It's easy to see that in track and fields because there are records. But look at football, basketball, rugby, baseball, etc. Look at any sport you like and tell me that's not true.

 

Those sports aren't boxing. It's just something that you'll either find out by watching the old timers box or you don't.

It's difficult to buy that a Ray Robinson could compete today considering that in every other sport the athletes get better each year. But we're talking about a sport where wildman like Mayorga can knock out a classy boxer like Vernon Forrest.

And when you look at the tapes of Ray Robinson, and then some footage of Kelly Pavlik, it's hard to say that Pavlik is the better athlete of the two. But Pavlik knocked out the athletic Jermain Taylor and so did Carl Froch.

 

Ali said it about Frazier, Chuvalo, Dempsey and Marciano. He didn't think any of them could box as well as he could nor were they anywhere near as athletic as he was, but they were strong and durable and gave him far more trouble than boxer types.

Don't you think the 1966 version of Ali who put a boxing clinic on Cleveland Williams could compete today?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJUzl0aFHZw[/ame]


Compare this to some recent uninspiring performance such as this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsG0MyugTUY[/ame]


That's 40 years, in any other sport the athlete from 1966 would be made to look bad these days. But then again you have to take into account that Jesse Owens was running on this:

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While Usain Bolt is running on this:

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Styles make fights and the 180 pound Dempsey that fought Willard would not have much of a shot against the 220 pound Tyson that fought Berbick. Dempsey came in to fight, he did not box. It would end early.

 

TheGreatA, I think Vitali or Wlad would beat that Ali. But I agree that in boxing the time limit in witch an athlete can be competitive is bigger then in other sports. But we are talking about 1919 vs 1989. Or 30's vs 00's. That's 70 years. I look at the old films and I see them slower, less power, less slick. And smaller.

Consider also that before 1989 East Europeans could box as pro. Today the talent pool is also bigger (a lot more population, more people into boxing). All those facts should tell you something.

 

Can you honestly say that Vitali Klitschko is a better athlete than Muhammad Ali?

The talent pool is not bigger. The Eastern Europeans have made their mark in boxing but on the other hand the US heavyweight boxing has declined. The only fighters they can come up with are overweight former light heavyweight amateurs such as Chris Arreola and Eddie Chambers. These two are in no way comparable to the likes of a prime Ali, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield. Keep in mind that the likes of Ali and Foreman beat the best Soviet heavyweights in the amateurs.

I imagine you haven't seen anywhere near as much film from 70 years ago than from today. I think you should keep studying the old films and make up your mind then. Right now you're not even considering the possibility that they could have been as good and look for things to criticize. Keep an open mind while watching the footage and you may come to a different conclusion.