The science of punch resistance

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Nov 9, 2009.


  1. betabong

    betabong Active Member Full Member

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    With no science to prove, and just pure observations from my experiences. I was a martial artists for six years, never a boxer and I did not take that much head blows to be honest with you.

    Mostly mental, how you deal with pain is enough to negate a knockdout when the the force is not enough to rattle your brain.

    What one must do to lessen the force of impact, if you see it coming that is, instead of taking the hit dead on, obviously u try to avoid. When it can not be avoided, some stiffens their muscle which I think is the wrong way to take a punch. I'll make an example of board breaking in martial arts. To break a board, they usually put the boards in a supported platform with empty space in the middle. This is like stiffening your muscles to prevent movement. Sometimes this boards are stacked in great numbers and usually they are succesful in breaking the boards. On the other hand, try hanging a board floating freely in mid-air with no force holding it and see how difficult it is to break the board. It can be done of course but the more effective way to do it is by explosive speed of your strike with a follow through, like if you were hitting something behind that board instead of directly on the board itself.

    If the fighter relaxes instead of stifening the muscle, the impact would be somewhat like a board in mid-air, thus negating some of the impact. Placing your strike is also extremely crucial in breaking boards, you need to know which way the grains of the board runs through. same with striking a human head, you need to do it in the right angle to maximize the force and to where the opponent can not react by moving his head away from impact.

    Many other factors affect punch resistance as stated in many of the above posts and I'm not going to touch into them, I agree on most of them.

    One thing no one has touched on is punch resistance in the body. Punches in the body really hurts, but this is really where punch resistance is more mental than the actual damage. The most painful area specifially would be the solar plexus and the floating ribs. The physical damage is mostly minimal but it really hurts and get into your brain and the brain is suggesting you to give up. This is one reason I believe that some pain deadening trainings are effective.

    Like I said, I have no scientific proof to my explanation, just experience, and I may be wrong.
     
  2. o_money

    o_money Boxing Junkie banned

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    I found this article interesting but having read many like it I found it to be too much of a propaganda piece to be able to tell which factors they outlined were more important in the development of serious brain damage then others. Also they only briefly mentioned the acute brain injuries but didn't really delve into factors that would contribute to ones ability to avoid a knockout.
     
  3. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    ...
     
  4. G U E R R I E R

    G U E R R I E R Thomas ''Hitman'' Hearns Full Member

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  5. uemcee

    uemcee New Member Full Member

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    I wanted to know if there is a correlation between the fighter's head size and punch resistance. Oscar had a big head and pretty good punch resistance, while someone like Amir Khan has a really small head and was knocked out easily.
     
  6. kriszhao

    kriszhao Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Very insightful.
     
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    There must be something to the hydration theory, as one of the cited reasons for having weigh-ins 24 hours in advance is listed as prevention of rapid dehydration as a medical precaution to help reduce the risk of neurological damage. :think

    [url]Pages 76-82[/url]

    This also supports the idea of "chin" being a finite and exhaustible resource, with an average of 12 (!) professional bouts being determined seen as "pushing the envelope" of CTBI (chronic traumatic brain injury, the new politically correct term for pugilistica dementia) risk in one clinical study (with a relatively small sample group, but still)...
     
  8. marting

    marting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not necessarily. Sure smoking diminishes lung capacity but people are born with differing lung capacity and other factors like blood pressure would come into play for oxygen delivery.
     
  9. mughalmirza786

    mughalmirza786 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Obviously the BMA are not going to delve into the nature of punch resistance too much otherwise they would basically be saying, its ok for some people to box because of there physiology. It does appear however that the traditional notion of having a thick neck or thick skull is not that much of a determinant in deciding a fighters chin. What appears to be more important is what is actually stopping the brain in one's skull smashing around inside when hit.
     
  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Is this an accurate claim?

    [url]http://www.braininjury.com/injured.html[/url]

    "Over the years, professional boxers suffer permanent brain damage. The force of a professional boxer's fist is equivalent to being hit with a 13 pound bowling ball traveling 20 miles per hour, about 52 g's. Plopping down into an easy chair can generate up to 10 g's. So, it seems that somewhere between 10 and 50 g's is the threshold to permanent brain injury. This does not mean that accelerations over 50 g's have to cause permanent brain damage. Football players are subjected to 200 g's, and Indy race car drivers have been subjected to 80 g's without permanent injury, but they were wearing helmets."

    :think

    The article goes on to suggest that whiplash (diffuse axonal injury) is actually the worse form of traumatic brain injury than a straight-on cortex contusion, giving the example of woodpeckers pecking their faces with 1200 g's (!) but being able to keep their heads and necks in plane with their body, therefore their spines in perfect alignment and safe from this type of injury.

    My initial conclusion here, assuming this information is valid, is that it may be preferable to take a straight lead or cross to the chin by a harder puncher and be rendered unconscious immediately (a Bailey-Figueroa type of KO where one simply goes to sleep and collapses when their legs are relieved of duty) than to be ripped flush with an uppercut or hook from a lighter hitter that would carry the secondary danger of axonal stretching...
     
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    :bump

    In light of MexicanJew's excellent distillation of some of the hard-science fact he gleaned from this dialogue, let's continue to chip away at this chin issue. In particular, the exhaustibility of resistance remains of great interest to me. Being that many (including MJ) highlight hydration as a critical factor in resistance, it makes me wonder - could it be that the reasonable threshold of hydration for someone with optimal innate punch resistance (ie hasn't yet taken too much if any damage) is higher than for someone with diminished resistance (ie a veteran brawler)? Fascinating if such a correlation exists. For instance, there could be a point at which Yuri Foreman (a young LMW who with a style disposed to minimizing trauma) would even out with say Yory Boy Campas (a grizzled punching bag who's been in with some heavy hitters) if you were to dry out the former and put the latter on a Powerade IV. This would make more sense if plotted on a graph. That's not happening at present. Maybe later. :good
     
  12. mughalmirza786

    mughalmirza786 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Time to revive the thread again. Searching the internet i came up with this reference to research carried out by Tianjin University of Science. You will laugh at this but it appears that on average white women have thickest skulls in humans and white men have the thinnest. So maybe women boxers could really be built for the sport more so than the average man?

    [url]http://www.medindia.net/news/Thick-Skull-Saves-Female-Drivers-from-Accidents-32214-1.htm[/url]
     
  13. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The only caution to laying out a graph like that: I've heard different theories about this, but still the currently accepted one is that a person is born with all the brain cells they will ever have. If mild damage is suffered the cells and neurons may be able to heal themselves or to make new pathways for existing cells to operate around the damaged area, (which is how people recover being able to function after having a stroke and such) but if the cells are damaged beyond a certain point, then there's nothing you can do to revive.

    So to use your example: Yuri Foreman is presumably without any such damage. Yory Boy Campas, on the other hand, has likely suffered such damage from all the hits he's taken in the ring. (Especially when Trinidad knocked his head back about 90 degrees at the end of their fight.) As a result, their brains may never now be able to reach that spot where they even out.

    Now, I do have add that it was discovered years ago that at least one area of the brain was able to regrow lost cells in a lab setting, and that was the hippocampas, a section that deals with memory. Since then they've said that the hippocampas does turnover cells all through its life, losing and gaining cells regularly, so the old theory outlined above may be wrong. However, so far as I've heard it is only the hippocampas that has been proven to be do this.
     
  14. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Here I'd always attributed the low KO ratio in female boxing to them being feather-fisted. :think

    Seriously, that is interesting. Thickness alone as a consideration, however, may need to be tempered by other factors like the proportionate "fit" of the brain as it is situated within, the structural integrity of its own tissue, the viscosity of the fluids surrounding it, etc. This is all sheer conjecture on my part, anybody with a good knowledge base here is certainly encouraged to advise whether these ideas are hot or cold.
     
  15. Son of Gaul

    Son of Gaul Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Some of it is physiological, especially when it comes to neck muscles and skull thickness but MUCH MORE of it is raw will...the inabiltity to give up or go down from sheer spitefulness(lol). This is something that , unfortunately, can't be taught.