Heavyweight Boxing History With No Color Line

doubt it. jackson or willis would have taken the title IMO

 

Actually, it is very possible.

Peter Jackson is the first with a case. But, he drew (not beat) with Corbett. Even if he were white, he may not have got the shot at Sullivan first, in fact he probably wouldnt have. And against Corbett, he nearly got a rematch anyway but negotiations fell through. This may have happened anyway. Realistically though, i think Peter would have got a chance at Corbett. How he went, there are no guarantees and he easily may have lost.

Next hard done by person is Jack Johnson. Ironically, Jack won the world championship. Without the colour line, he may have fought Jeffries earlier and lost (though he may not have). Alternatively, he may have beat burns still, but not had the victory over Jeffries. Ironically, it was the colour line that actually hurt him the second time round, i think he was a certainty to get a rematch at either Willard or Dempsey, if it wasnt for the colour line.

This leaves McVey and Langford. Having already been beaten by Johnson, they may not have got a second chance. Plus, htey wouldnt have had as many wins against each other which means they also may not have developed into the great fighters that they became. Plus, i think it very believable that Johnson would continue dominance if they met for the title, so you would think that both would be unlikely to get the win.

This leaves Harry wills as the best chance to step up and win the title, but i am not convinced. Old Jack Johnson probably ties up the world title with a Willard rematch and/or a Dempsey Rematch for some time. By the time Wills negotiates, he has the same difficulties that he had regardless of the colour line. There is every chance that he still misses out on that deserved shot. Although more than likely, he probably does get to meet Dempsey at some stage. Does he win? Well it is definitely no better than 50-50.

So, in hindsight, I think that at best Jackson, Langford, McVey and Wills are the only realistic chances of getting a title shot. All 4 are at best 50-50 chances and three of them will have to win title matches against fighters that they have already been defeated by. Even Wills, probably wont have had the millions of chances to beat Sam Langford that he got, so he will not be necessarilly the standout top contender that he seems to be nowadays.

 

I don't think Corbett, Willard or Tunney would be champs. Jeffries would reign longer and never have the comeback against Johnson. Johnson's reign would be shorter but better. Langford, McVey, Jeanette and Wills would be all champ at one point. I could see Gunboat Smith beeing champ at a point. Godfrey probably would hold the title in the mid/late 20s.

 

Godfrey i'm not sold on. His power yes but i'm not sure he could've beaten dempsey or tunney

 

It may be that he wouldn' have to beat Tunney. Tunney never fought a black fighter in his career. He may not have moved to hw if Godfrey was champ.

I see it like the 1890s beeing ruled by Jackson. The turn of he century by Fitz. The 00s by Jeffries. The late 00s/early 10s by Johnson and then the situation beeing similar like in the early/mid 30s. The title switching hands often between Langford, McVey, Wills and Jeanette and Smith holding it also for a time. Then Dempsey comes around and rules he very late 10s and early/mid 20s. Dempsey would fight more often and this leads to him beeing more faded in the mid 20s when he loses the title to Godfrey who stays champ until he loses it to either Sharkey or Schmeling.

 

fair analysis:good i wonder if dempsey's reign would have even lasted that long had he truly fought the best. course if langford, sam mcvey, wills, jeanette and smith would have been worn out from fighting each other than dempsey could have had a relatively smooth reign. Godfrey could take a faded dempsey for sure and any of the previous 5 could have potentially beat dempsey if fighting near their peaks

 

If the promoters took the cuffs of Jack Dempsey and let him fight I think he had the style to beat Harry Wills.

As far as Tunney he held his own against some of the better White fighter who competed well against the black fighters of the day. Greb for one.

Sam Langford would have held a title somewhere between 168 and 175lbs

Pre Dempsey Peter jackson would be at the top of the heap somewhere

Dempsey would fair well vs Wills and the lot but would have his share of lumps

 

I think Jess Willard would still be champ had he had the fight with Johnson in 1915.

Now I dont think he hold it for 4 years, but I think Johnson would have still fought Jess Willard for easy pickings(As was his intended choice was)

 

I don' think Johnson would still be champ in 1915. He would lose his title between 1912-1914to either Langford, McVey or Smith.

 

Agreed. Johnson would not beat all those guys. Its a shame he locked out the best black heavyweights in Langford, McVey and Jeanette from title fights.

Johnson did fight Gunboat Smith. Smith was too good to be considered a white hope, which is why he never got a title shot despite the fact he defeated Willard and Moran before they got title shots form Johnson.

Johnson meet Smith in a 4 round affair. Smith floored Johnson, and TKO'd him as Johnson manager had to stop the match in the 4th round.

It is likely that Jackson would have been Champion, In fact he was the Birrish Emprie champ, which was no small title.

Thankfully the color line is gone today, and boxing is an international sport. It would be tough to call any of the current non Eastern Euro heavies champion. Without them, Chambers, Haye, Peter, or Arreloa would be the top man.

 

Peter Jackson beats Sullivan.

Corbett may beat an aging Jackson in the mid 1890's.

Fitzsimmons beats Corbett or Jackson. Jeffries beats Fitzsimmons. Jeffries beats Jack Johnson? Jack Johnson wins the title after Jeffries retires. He fights Langford, McVea, Jeannette. Langford wins title from Johnson? Title changes hands between Langford, McVea, Jeannette, Wills. Langford KO's Wills. Holds title until Fred Fulton beats him decisively. Fulton KO'd in 20 seconds by Dempsey. Dempsey has rivalry with Wills?

It's possible. I don't think Godfrey would have his hands on the title, I believe Sharkey, Tunney and Schmeling were better than him. Tunney was willing to fight Wills but Wills didn't want to fight him.

 

I think Smith was about as good as Jeanette and nearly on the level McVey, Langford and Wills had. He is ofen overlooked due to him beeing a white man who never got a title shot and not a black one who didn't get one due to the colour line.

 

Perhaps change the thread name to "Heavyweight Boxing History with No Lame American Title Control"