Marciano v.s. Bowe ...

Rocky Marciano isn't beating Riddick Bowe.. And It has nothing to do with how many all time greats one beat over the other. Bowe would not only be by far, the largest and probably strongest man the Rock ever faced, but also had the best infighting game, along with a well proven chin and a fair amount of power to boot..

For the record, I rate Rocky Marciano in my top 5, whereas Bowe barely makes my top 15, but legacies and head to head match-ups are completely different animals.

 

I love the rock but...

Riddick Bowe by Manslaughter(RD6)

Bowe's too big, strong and too good at all the things that Marciano was good at.

 

Bowe. Whenever the Rock gets inside, Bowe's inside skills compensate and he would merely work Rocky backwards. I don't see him stopping Bowe or being able to get his punches off inside long enough to outwork him either, so I can't conceivably see any weight for him to win this fight.

 

It's a pick 'em fight.
I can see that version of Bowe giving Marciano an even worse beating than he gave Holyfield. On the other hand, if anyone's gonna hang in there like Holy did and slug right back like Holy did, then it's Rocky Marciano - and we shouldn't underestimate Rocky's punch. I wouldn't be surprised if a 185 pound Rocky slugged suitably enough harder than a 205-pound Holyfield to make the difference against Bowe.

 

Bowe - no doubt about it. Big, strong, tough and skillfull at the same time - nothing like guys Rocky faced

 

Seconded. or thirded, or fourthed... whatever.

 

The whole Bowe was great on the inside-thing has to be looked at beyond what he could do with a certain class of fighter. We never saw him stick it out inside with a big hitter. I believe if we did, we'd see some things that might make us think twice about how big and how strong Bowe is relative to Marciano...know what I mean.

If Bowe was smart, he'd use his size and longer reach to his advantage and try to out-box Marciano.

Not sold on sheer size and power beating Rocky.

 

A 39 year old, 5'10" 188 lbs, Archie Moore had him decked in the first round, when fighting at close range. Yeah I know... Moore was an all time great, but I don't think that he had better physical tools than Bowe, and if Riddick had him in trouble, I doubt he'd let the Rock off the hook.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piw_ZD86f9E[/ame]

 

I'm with Unforgiven on this one - I just think that Bowe seems to get a bit discouraged whenever a smaller guy starts to bully him. To be fair to Bowe it was his first world title fight and he could be forgiven for being a little over-awed to begin with - it was kind of a baptism of fire for him - in the early going Holyfield was hurting the big guy and was trying to match him for strength and was trying to out slug him every time they got into an exchange even though he was not in Marciano's league as a puncher - his problem I think was when he got in close he would just stay there - there was too much mauling and physical type stuff - whereas funnily enough that Marciano wouldn't stay in there - if you watch Marciano's fights he doesn't spend all the time on his opponents chest - he usually steps back out to come back at things from a different angle and his punching was much harder and much more instantly hurtful than Holyfield's and I think Bowe would also find Marciano much more awkward to hit and get to than Holyfield - Bowe's biggest question mark as a rule was his stamina and that was arguably Rock's best asset so over the distance I can see Riddick starting to look a bit sorry for himself especially if he comes in with the idea that he's going to beat this little guy easily - possibly even being stopped in the late stages

 

Certainly not a peak Marciano, though.

Every fighter gets dropped. Frazier was down against Mike Bruce in this second fight for a count of 8, dropped by Bonavena twice in 1 round, and dropped by Foreman 8 times.

Dempsey KTFO by Flynn, dropped by Firpo and Tunney

The Holyfield that had trouble breathing dropped Bowe

Louis was dropped by Braddock, Galento, and KOed by Schemling

Holyfield dropped and KOed by Bowe

Tyson dropped by Holyfield, KOed by Douglas and Lewis

Ali dropped by Cooper, Jones (185 pound men not known for being huge hitters), and Frazier

Lewis KOed by McCall and Rahman

If you go right down the list. All fighters, especially Heavyweights have pretty much been downed or even KOed. Marciano was on the canvas less than 95% of the other HW fighters and less than most greats. Walcott hit him with a shot that topped Charles. Moore could punch, and Rocky didn't see it. Moore was KOing 210+ Heavyweights.

Bowe wins 6-7/10 times I think at the least. In a trilogy, if we replaced Marciano with Holyfield Marciano wins the second fight. I think Marciano is more equipped to slug it out in the in-fighting than Holyfeild. He punches like hell and he's durable enough. The added weight disadvantage hurts, but Rocky took some good clean shots from an old Louis, but a Louis that still could punch. Bowe will be huge trouble but if Rocky can smother his power, and if Bowe fights the wrong game-plan than I think he can win. Can Bowe really out-work Rocky? Maybe he hurts him, and puts him down of there. But does he finish? Rocky recovers great, and was never close to being KOed. But he was known to take big punishment when he had to. How much can he take? It's a tough fight, but I see no reason why it's impossible for Marciano to win. Though, realistically, I do favor Bowe for obvious reasons. But he would be more suited to fight on the out-side.

 

what in the hell did riddick bowe ever do to make all time great? his credentials suck. His whole career is based on one guy who he also lost to.
If we start rating guys on one fight buster douglas beat a better champion and he did everything beter than bowe that one night.
mike tyson was the best heavyweight in the world when buster knocked him out. Bowe only edged holyfield who if we remember nobody was compleatly sold on at that time since he struggled with cooper, holmes and foreman. evryone was saying "lets see how he gets on against the next real heavyweight" since douglas quit and cooper was a sub, holmes and foreman too old to test a real champ. bowe was just that next guy.
I dont want anyone squawking about how bowe knocked out holyfield the 3rd time, there was somethinhg seriously wrong with evander that night. he was having an asthma atack or something after bowe got up, I never did see a guy stop punching like that.
If you want to know what i think how bowe gets on with marciano think frazier v mathis.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kn9pAav-Rc[/ame]

 

I agree with pretty much what you're saying - although what I would say is that I don't think anyone is saying that Bowe is necerssarily one of the elite heavyweights of all time - it's just that when in shape (ie no more than 235) and with something to prove he is no easy mark for anyone really - I think Riddick is a little better than Mathis - at the end of the day he did win the heavyweight title and in one of the most absorbing heavyweight title fights ever too (and when all is said and done Mathis didn't) - i know Riddick had his problems but for better or worse he was at one stage (even if for one night only) the best heavyweight in the world and for anyone to have done that in their time deserves respect - fair enough as soon as he had've fought Lennox I think the torch would've been passed again but for that night he was the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world