Middleweights: On a Head to Head basis who comes out on top?

Tell me about it. It's largely a cop out for the Monzon lovers who have no basis for picking him other than pathetic vagaries.

 

No basis for picking him .

Contain yourself.

 

Of the champions listed, I believe Hagler has the edge but I think '95 Roy Jones would take them all.:good

 

"Hopkins said he'd lose" doesn't count.

His left hand is also getting massively over-rated; in fact, it would make it worse for him against Hopkins as his pawing jab would get countered time and time again.

 

RJJ whips 'em all.

 

Hopkins is not usualy given to flourishes of modesty, but we could chalk it up to an off night.

 

Even Mundine managed to counter Monzon's jab.

 

Mundine was a very good technical boxer. I'm noy saying it's implausible for Hopkins to counter his jab, but he's just as at risk for Monzon's right hand following it up once he gauges the distance. There's a good reason for Hopkins's opinion on Monzon, the way I see it. Hopkins is great at tying up after the right hand lead. Monzon was one of the best at slipping an arm (or both) out of the clinch and brutalizing an opponent to the body during. Hopkins is a great spoiler and a good in-fighter, he'd have no advantages there against Monzon. Hopkins is a great ring general with a great right hand. Monzon is a great ring general with one of the best 1-2's of all time. I think it's more than likely that Monzon's 1-2 would cancel out Hopkins's right hand lead once the two get into a groove.

 

Monzon doesn't even have a pawing jab per se.It's certainly not how the punch should be firstly defined when speaking about him.

Khaosai Galaxy had a pawing jab, 90% of the time just using it as a range finder for the money punch.He's an easy quick example of a top fighter who would be accurately described as such.

Monzon had an educated complete left-hand.Sure he did take advantage of his range to use it as a slower range-finder, but he also pumped out accurate heavy proper jabs just as often...or he'd throw it deliberately short and quicker as a feint, then throw a long right, or a proper stiff jab/double jab as the opponent went to move in, assuming they were out of range.

Anybody that sets traps and varies things with the left, throws deliberately slower/telegaphed jabs occasionally will get countered every so often when they don't do it at the right time etc...but i'd say Monzon was one of the best at using this sort of thing properly.He fought plenty of good technical fighters and none of them solved his jabbing "over and over".Hopkins wouldn't either i don't think, it wouldn't be that simple a path to victory for either man.

Monzon isn't a hearns or Quartey with the jab, giving you his best almost every time and forcing you to do the adapting...he's like Conteh/Napoles/Ortiz...he'll throw ten jabs, almost all of them a bit different, subtly controlling the fight with it...taking his time, takes a punch here and there, sets his traps...then usually opens up more by about the fifth if he thinks he's solved you.

watch his fights and see how many suddenly turn in his favour circa 5th-7th, and how the jab played a part in opening up the right hand.It's marvelous 15 round pacing.

 

Enjoyed all of this post but the bold and lined is something I noticed myself. It was my 'breakthrough' so to speak.

He went from 'man this guy is boring' to 'man this guys timing and accuracy are spot on' and the heaviness of his shots start to draw you in, then you realise how strong he hits to the body and how durable he is himself.

It's around that time that I start thinking man this guys a head to head monster.

But I still think Hagler would beat him.

 

Well, even if Monzon could neutralize Hopkins on the inside, I'm not sure it would make a huge amount of difference. Although he likes to get inside work done, I don't think he'd struggle if the fight was conducted at range, even though Monzon is effective there, as he developed just as much of a bag of tricks there as he did up close, and also has the edge in speed. Obviously, against Pavlik, he didn't really work inside at all, and only really closed the distance as a mechanism to avoid return fire or to slow down the pace. He has the old school moving and feinting, as well as the athleticism, reflexes and speed to more than handle himself from the outside. Even there I don't see anything Monzon could do to land on someone as cagey as Hopkins, and his leaky defence would see him getting countered regularly.

Here's another way to put it. The thing with Hopkins is that it's extremely difficult to beat him with conventional tools; he's clever enough to know how to predict and avoid those. You need speed, unorthodoxy and a bit of luck, and even then you probably won't have an easy night. Monzon was great at nailing people who walk forward at him, but if Hopkins doesn't lead, what then? He's not going to land a huge amount with just the 1-2. Hopkins would pick his opportunities and get to the punch first, and counter Monzon when he tries to press.

 

You seem to know Hopkins better than he knows himself. Or at least a lot better than you know Monzon, anyway.

 

I thought of bumping this thread just so others could get a chance to read this post. Now that it has been, I just wanted to commend you on it. As always, your technical analysis is first rate. One of my favorite posts from you.

 

Thanks man:good.