Who really deserved to win this contest? I don't yet have a strong opinion on the fight, but from what little bit I have read, it seems that Flowers may have deserved the win. Does anyone have any newspaper reports on the fight? I have read that Walker rallied late to make it a closer fight. I know The Toy Bulldog dropped The Georgia Deacon in the ninth, but they didn't score on a point system back then, so that would have been just another round in the bank for Walker. Anyway, help me out people. It would be much appreciated. :good P.S. : Burt Bienstock, I would like to hear from you on the topic. I am quite sure that you have read something about the fight, so educate me my friend.
Its a tough fight to call. Flowers probably deserved it but was probably closer than those who were outraged would have us believe. Walker landed the harder punches and managed to drop Flowers at least once (and if memory serves maybe more than once). Flowers landed more often but, and this is a big BUT, he was slapping with an open glove which he was known to do. In boxing you cant score punches/slaps with an open glove. The referee who awarded the fight to Walker cited this as his reasoning for scoring more rounds for Walker and if you are scoring strictly by the book then its possible to make an argument for Walker. If one guy throws 1000 punches, 900 of which are open gloved slaps, and the other guy throws 101 punches and lands a knockdown or two... well, you give it to the guy who landed 101 punches, not the busier guy who was landing illegal, unscorable blows.
I have a ringside report from James P. Dawson of the NY Times, which states that most of the crowd cheered the decision, but that most sportswriters strongly disagreed with it. Dawson says he scored the fight 5-4-1 for Flowers, but says Flowers clearly dominated the rounds he won, indicating that there was no way he should've gotten less than a draw. However, Walker floored Flowers twice, so it's possible if the fight was scored on points rather than rounds it would not have been "controversial."
The point system is one improvement to boxing that I strongly agree with. Let's say that Flowers-Walker was 5 rounds to 5, but Walker scored two knockdowns. Then it becomes a clear decision for Walker, at least on the scorecards.
Pay-Per-View - Los Angeles Times - ProQuest Archiver - Dec 23, 1927 I BY ,WESTBROOK PEGLER. NEW YORK, Dec. 22.-When the senile Young Grlifo died a ... Walker got the title by an official outrage against Tiger Flowers ond ... Big Coin Still Scarce in Tin Ear Business - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver (Pay-Per-View) All 2 related - Related web pages PEGLER WAS LABELED A RACIST BY 2 DIFFERENT BIOGRAPHERS AND HE HAD TIGER WINNING!
That may mean something, for what it's worth. I read someone's post saying that the crowd cheered the decision, but the writers were opposed. Well, just because the crowd cheers doesn't mean they actually think Walker deserved to win. Walker was probably a huge fan favorite. I am not saying that everyone was racist or anyhing like that, but I have read that Flowers had received some bad decisions in his career. And again, I have no preference here. I like both guys. I just want to know who really deserved to W.
Abdullah, What I had read about Walker taking a ten round decision was that Walker won on the basis of dropping Flowers twice in their bout in Chicago,1925... Plenty of boos at the decision, as Tiger Flowers, was a well liked gentleman...Tigers was in several controversional verdicts in his career..With a past peak Harry Greb twice,Mike McTigue, etc...He was so difficult to fight, being a southpaw, busy puncher with no great power, but very difficult to beat...Gave everyone of his opponents a hard time, becausue of his style... Except one fighter who had his number...Jack Delaney,so forgotten today as an alltime great, flattened Flowers twice,in 1925,with Delaney's laser right hand...As fate would have it Tiger Flowers died ,in the hospital, one year, after his great opponent ,Harry Greb died, both from operations on their eyes...Strange, but true...
Thanks for responding, Burt. One more question. I read that Tiger Flowers wasn't a natural southpaw. I read that he began fighting southpaw due to some wrist injury or something like that. Do you know anything about it?
Abdullah, No I wasn't aware that Tiger Flowers was once an orthodox fighter...But I remember reading a book about Tiger Flowers, published several years ago...Very interesing book about the " Georgia Deacon "...Try your local library under the subject title ,Tiger Flowers..It was in the NY library ,I took the book from...Good luck...B.B.
Thank you, Burt. I saw a picture of a Tiger Flowers book by the name of "The Pussycat of Prizefighting". I'm not sure if that is the one that you've read. But anyway, thanks again for your responses, it is very much appreciated. P.S. : The southpaw thing may not be true. I saw it on a headline, but wasn't able to read the article. I just thought I would ask.
Flowers may have gotten a gift against Greb in the rematch. There just isn't as much racism among crowds and decisions in mixed bouts after 1920 as one would expect considering the times, at least in the north part of the U.S. People tended to be fair and most recognized who the winner despite their pigmentation. There were rumors before Walker-Flowers that shady types were involved and those in-the-know supposedly bet lots of cash on Mickey, but these are quite substantiated. The AP report says that Walker was landing the heavier shots, staggered him, and flattened him. The second time Flowers went down it was from a right, and Flowers did a back spring back up. It was a fast fight, but according to the AP, Walker was landing harder though he was cut in the fourth. The decision was booed at first after the ref just raised Walker's hand without consulting the judges, but then cheered, and police had to show a presence until both fighters were in their dressing rooms. The report also said that the crowd of 10,000 was divided. The critics at ringside believed that it was a bad decision, but two clean knockdowns and the descriptions of the fight that I've seen don't validate claims that it was a robbery. Disputable perhaps but not a robbery. Walk Miller, Flowers' manager himself would have been satisfied with a draw. That's not outrage... at least of the sustained type. Mickey himself admitted that it was "a close fight" but that there was no way Tiger won it. ...Flowers, incidentally, immediately and warmly took Walker's hands and congratulated him as the decision was announced....
Thank you for your informative post. I have been wondering about this fight for a while. Walker is considered a great middleweight champion, so I was wondering if he ever truly deserved the title in the first place. From what I have gathered, it was a close bout. As far as Flowers shaking hands with Walker after the fight, well, I wouldn't expect any less from him. By all accounts, The Georgia Deacon was a gentleman. Another thing, I have read several reports that Greb deserved the third and final fight with Flowers and may have even deserved the second one. People who saw the fight, like Gene Tunney, William Muldoon, the referee, etc., all said that Greb should've won. So really you could make the case that Flowers wasn't the rightful middleweight champion when Walker beat him. Anyway, I am a biased Greb fan, I can't help it. But, I am fair, and if Greb lost, he lost. He never made excuses, so I won't start making them for him.
