Is James Toney an all atg

Nunn was not considered unbeatable. His stock had dropped quite a bit & the fight that really got a lot of people to question him was the Barkley fight. Prior to that there were doubters but they came out in droves after that particular fight.

Jirov was a real good win but some think Jirov should've got the nod. Close fight and Toney was outworked a lot of rounds. And Jirov was not considered a second coming of Holyfield in that division or of the caliber of JC Gomez. Maybe Ice Cole and that's a name you don't hear thrown around.

 

I have him in my top 100. Between 80-100 probably.

 

In my opinion, Toney is a bona fide ATG. I think he gets collectively lowballed just now because he's fat and because some people find him irritating. But I feel certain that history is going to look far kinder on a man who won the middleweight title in 1991 then outfought a prime Sam Peter at heavyweight around 15 years later. It's a pretty astounding feat if you ask me. Most fighters are finished by their mid 30s, and that's if they have kept themselves in top shape. Toney was nearing 40 and anything from 30 to 60 pounds overweight when he went in against Peter, and Peter was perhaps the 2nd best hw in the world at the time, a big natural heavy who was considered a genuine powerpuncher. Toney didn't go in there and dance and try to outbox him and steal a decision the way it would have been logical for a naturally smaller man to do, he went in there and went toe-to-toe, relying on sheer skill and incredible chin and toughness. And I believe he won the fight and deserved the decision. That is the stuff of ATGs right there for sure.

Toney has had 80+ fights from middle to heavy, and has fought some of the very best fighters of his era, from his 20s to his 40s, and no-one has stopped him yet. From 1991 til 1994, he was one of the most skilled fighters I've ever seen. His performances against Nunn, Barkley and in the 1st McCallum fight were just beyond amazing. His time at cruiserweight was fantastic as well.

Yeah, for me he is a lock top 100 OAT and an ATG. JMO.

 

No. Inconsistent and disappears for years at a time. His heavyweight career is a huge, fat joke.

 

His longevity should compensate for his inconsistency to some extent, no? It's not really a point of criticism that he never became heavyweight champion though is it, considering he is 5ft 10in tall, a natural 160-168, and was in his late 30s when he got to the division?? That he even fought there at all was a wonder, never mind the fact he beat the **** out of John Ruiz, should've got the nod vs Peter, and drew with Rahman.

 

His career accomplishments speak for themselves, and yes he won the heavyweight championship too, got stripped for bull**** steriods used to repair an injury. Definite ATG, that didnt fufill his full potential.

 

He's not even close to an ATG but he's grossly underrated/overlooked because of his mouth and appearance. The UFC will find out soon enough...:fire

 

Kinda fell off the earth from 96 till about 03. Losses to Griffin, Thadzi and the disgraceful decision against Tiberi don't help.

 

Yes. I would certainly say he is. I think he's a complete ******* but that doesn't change my rating him very well in the top 100.

 

i do not know how can one make an all time top 50 ATG list and not include him.
he is in my top 20 , at least still.
(1) never been stopped as a pro.
(2) fought top opposition.
(3) never even beaten decisively when (relatively for him) in shape - this means jones picked him b/c he knew he had great trouble maintaining the 168.
(4) fought all comers , never ducked anyone
(5) maintained his greatness through several weight classes and through many years , so he wasn't/isn't a great heavyweight , but what can one expect reminding his size , age , accumulated career damage ?

 

Only by his fanboys. Chagaev was number 2 at the time. And pretty clearly imo.

I'd say he is a natural 175 pounder.

Why do you guys ignore his losses to Griffin, Thadzi, Tiberi and the second Peter fight? Why are you ignoring that he got caught with steroids two times?

He was a great fighter but no all-time great.

 

I was a big Toney fan in the 90's but I don't see how he can make a top 50 list.

In regards to 1 and 2, I am trying to decide who his best scalp was past Nunn in the 1990's, in his prime years between middle and light heavy? An absolutely ancient McCallum? A shopworn Charles Williams?

In regards to 3... being out of shape is a built-in excuse I do not recognize. If you can't get in shape or make the weight and still take the fight, you deserve to lose.

4) While I don't think he ducked anyone, he sure missed a lot of good potential match-ups or chances to redeem himself... Benn, Collins, Eubank, Michalscewski, Jones, Jr. rematch...

5 is the best argument for him.

 

I think he was definitely an all time great, but just not on the level of say a Hagler, Hearns or Leonard. In 1991, he fought some 6 times including great fighters in Mike McCallum and Michael Nunn, just months apart from one another... He was undefeated in his first 46 pro fights before losing a decision to another all time great in Roy Jones.. He has never been stopped in 83 bouts and is a multiple division titlist.

 

I dont see why not. Top 40 for me

I was dissapointed in the Jones fight but he did manage the last minute miracle in the Nunn fight and a draw with McCallum, one of my best fights