Prime: Larry Holmes . Vs. Joe Frazier

I picked Holmes myself ,but in throwing the right uppercut ,he would leave himself open to the hook.

 

True.

 

Larry Holmes UD15

 

Frazier himself was happier to be compared to Armstrong than Marciano ,which I don't think he felt flattered him.

 

Holmes would defeat Frazier every time. Nuf said! Now for my point! Holmes was not a lesser Ali. Ali was the transitional boxing stylist. his foot work and mobility and the constantly flicking jab. Holmes was the style perfected. His foot work was better than Ali's. You seldom saw Holmes on the ropes. His jab was a real jab. Holme;s jab knocked some opponents down. Holmes jaw was as good about as Ali's. Holmes had more power than Ali. Holmes was more aggressive than Ali. You had to catch Ali, Holmes came looking for his opponent. Holmes has a better record overall, better k.o. percentage, never lost to lesser fighters like Patterson or Spinks, and his career lasted much longer with Holmes schooling fighters half his age before he finally retired.

 

I think that pretty much sums it up there...

 

Sure, the law of averages alone practically guarantees this. Go any distance with Joe, and his hook's going to land with regularity.

Yes, but the more versatile Norton and Weaver both had one punch knockout power in their right hands. (Norton-Randy Stephens, and Hercules-Coetzee.) Ken was able to jab with Ali, and Mike jabbed LeDoux to a virtual shutout over 12. While Frazier displayed a fine jab against Bob Foster and in the Quarry rematch, and his right hand tore open Jerry's face in that second meeting, he'd largely revert to a one trick pony against a prime Holmes. Frazier couldn't use his jab or right hand in a pivotal diversionary manner against this specific opponent, and he wouldn't bother to try.

Larry simply didn't get caught by hooks when executing his right uppercut. He knew how and when to deliver it at minimal risk to himself.

Cooney tried hooking him to the ribs, hips, biceps, arms, and even with a few deadly Golota's (which was not a preferred tactic of Joe's), yet Holmes was the one who wore Gerry down and out. As Bioyhh astutely pointed out, Joe wasn't always in the habit of coming on in the later rounds of his fights (check out the final rounds of the Bonavena rematch), while Holmes finished freshly in the only two championship limit title defenses of his prime (Berbick and Cobb).

Shavers had a badly underrated hook. Earnie's left was the punch which initially stunned Norton, that same hook dropped Lyle to a knee in their legendary 1975 classic, and it floored Jimmy Young as well. Shavers drove that hook to Larry's body relentlessly in both their fights, and won a grand total of a single round out of 22 completed. As with Cooney, it was Earnie who faded at the end, much more so than the man on the receiving end of all those hard hooks down below.

 

Yeah, don't know why people rate Ali really, he was exposed as soon as he stepped up in competition to young Spinks.

Agreed on Patterson - guy was a complete bum.

 

Thing is though, Ali was so open to Frazier's left hooks in part because he was pretty bad at throwing the right uppercut. He didn't bend his knee properly or at all while trying to catch a lower target, and his motion was too wide for him to recover quickly, which is why Futch and Frazier deliberately set out to make Ali miss with the uppercut and counter.

Holmes was not an uppercut master, but it was much more fundamentally sound and quicker than Ali's. He also seemed to be able to set the plate for it and size up opportunities to use it better.

That said, I'm also very undecided about this fight. The Frazier who fought Ali in 71 was as great a pressure fighter as there ever was. Cut off the ring expertly, worked the body and head to devastating effect, etc.

I think it's a tossup, but I do wonder how Holmes would deal with that pressure over 15 rounds, especially if Frazier could start getting him to the ropes or corner and working over his body as well as his head.

 

Holmes wasn't a sucker for the left hook like Ali was. Larry could be hit with the right hand, but Frazier didn't have a great right hand. Larry has the perfect style to defeat Frazier.

 

Larry was a better fighter than Joe Frazier in my mind. More dominant. In a 15 round fight Larry stops Joe in the late rounds on swelling. TKO

 

Frazier loved Marciano and picked him as the number 2 ranked Hvyweight after Joe Louis, I will find the quote in fact Frazier said Ali would not pull the rope a dope on Marciano, Rocky would bust up his arms. Frazier appreciated the comparison to Rocky

 

I would disagree with this I think that Holmes had the best uppercut since Johnson.

 

Hmm... at the time I think I meant that it wasn't his top weapon, but now I'm not sure. I was in a hurry and rushing a bit.

In any case I'd agree that Larry's uppercut was excellent and he used it well, much better than Ali did certainly, and it's one of the better ones in Heavyweight history, although I'd probably rank Louis and Tyson ahead of Holmes, and Lewis slightly below Holmes.