It is indeed, and while Jerry Quarry is about 10 leagues above McNeeley, I still don't see him lasting much longer, especially if he goes out there and tries to do to Tyson what he did against Shavers.. Trading at close range with Tyson would be huge mistake for anyone, let alone a 195 lbs heavyweight who cut and bleed to the extent that Quarry did.. Boxing Tyson from a distance might keep him around a bit longer, but I don't think he had the reach, speed, or durability to outpoint him for the 8 or 9 rounds that it would take for Mike's mental resolve to break down.... Quarry was a great fighter, and the post-prison Tyson was a badly diminished version, but its still a terrible match-up from both a stylistic and physical perspective.
Ali probably runs the division that Tyson had to contend with, but probably doesn't capture the imagination of the fighting public in quite the same way that Tyson did by virtue of the fact that his fights would generally last a little longer on the whole. However, I don't think that he would lose to Buster Douglas, no matter how motivated Douglas was, so he'd still be undefeated going into his involuntary break. If an amped up Tyson rises to the occasion and beats an aging and overconfident Liston, I think he runs the division that Ali faced in the 60's in much the same fashion that he did in the 80's, and suffers his first loss against Frazier after his layoff.
Tyson could probably beat the Liston of 64, then reign supreme for awhile, although you have to wonder if the same issues that caused his downfall in real life, (lack of dedication, overconfidence, mental/out of the ring problems) would affect him back then, maybe make him take someone for granted and be shockingly upset at the height of his dominance. I'm not sure why everyone is assuming a layoff for Tyson, as I doubt he would have done the same as Ali did. Nonetheless, I think in the 70s he would probably fare less well than in the 60s. He would really have to go to war with Frazier and most likely be bombed out by a prime Foreman.
The one thing that may prove different, is that Don King did not become a player in boxing until the 1970's, and he was the one directly responsible for coming in and turning team Tyson upside down. He turned Mike against the very group of people who worked with him since pre-adolescence, and within perhaps a year, had Rooney, Cayton and everyone else gone. Fighters were also paid to an over extreme by the 1980's, and the media-celebrity was way outta control.. I don't think that had Tyson been fighting during the 1960's, that the above mentioned conditions would have come into play... If anything, his greatest danger would have been getting drafted into the Vietnam war.
Interesting, I like it. Tyson- On the way up Tyson would have walked thru the likes of Lamar Clark and Sonny Banks. I think an old Archie Moore would have given Tyson slightly more problems than he gave Ali but in the end the "Old Mongoose" is still stopped inside of 6. I doubt Jones would last the distance. I think Cooper gets stopped early without giving Tyson too many problems. Liston vs. Tyson I- Despite Tyson's highlight reel type KOs over a few name HWs, Liston is still the favorite. Liston gives Tyson much more problems than he gave Ali. Liston has a huge reach advantage over Tyson and he would try to use his jab to control the tempo of the fight. Tyson's speed and peek-a-boo/bob and weave style would be a big factor for the first 4 rounds, he may even drop Liston. I think Liston's jab would play a big part in the fight after the 4th round. In the end I think Tyson wins a split-decision... setting up a rematch. Tyson vs. Liston II- Liston is favored again and many feel he took Tyson lightly in the first fight. No pre-fight build up like Ali vs. Liston II was but it's a must see fight. The fighters go right after each other and half way thru the 1st round Tyson drops Liston. Liston gets up and the fighters trade until the end of the round. The fight is back and forth and by round 8 both men have given and taken quite a bit of leather. Liston does a little more in the late rounds and wins by majority decision. A rubber match will be the biggest fight ever but first Liston (only the 2nd man to regain the HW title) will take on the 1st man to regain the HW title, Floyd Patterson, for the 3rd time. This should be an easy fight since Liston has already stopped him in the 1st round on 2 occasions. Liston stops Patterson for the 3rd time (this time in the 12th round) and promises to take on Tyson next. Liston vs. Tyson III- Liston is viewed by many as unbeatable once again and is the betting favorite. On the Liston vs. Patterson III undercard Tyson beat George Chuvalo KO5 (it is the first time Chuvalo has been stopped). The first round starts fast and even though Liston doesn't go down, he barely finishes the round. The 2nd round is a bit slower but Tyson is head hunting. Toward the end of the round Tyson goes to the body and hurts Liston. The 3rd round Tyson presses the action. Liston spends most of the round covering up, blocking, backing up, and throwing a few jabs. Liston wakes up in the 4th and outboxes Tyson. Liston has slowed the pace and starts to control the tempo. He wins round 5 and 6. The fight is even and both men are pretty fresh in round 7. It's a close fight all the way to the final bell. Tyson regains the title by unanimous decision. Next up is Floyd Patterson. to be continued...
Tyson beats the likes of Patterson KO8, Williams KO3, Terrell W15 (drops him twice though), Folley KO10 and a few others before being drafted. Since his first reign as HW champ Tyson has been involved in the Civil Rights movement and by 1967 considers himself a Muslim. He refuses induction... ...Tyson returns in 1970 and beats Jerry Quarry like he stole something, WKO3. Quarry is cut and dropped in the fight. Later that year he takes on the always tough Bonavena and becomes the first man to stop him, KO11. Next up is Frazier for a chance to regain the HW title.
Liston would have beaten Tyson, and Ali would have beaten Berbick...in my opinion...and Ali does better after the hiatus than Tyson does.
Frazier vs. Tyson 1971- "The Fight" and that's exactly what it is right from the start. Tyson drops Frazier twice in the early rounds but Frazier keeps coming and by round 6 he starts to take over. The fight goes back and forth, sometimes with one man taking control for two rounds at a times. In round 14 Frazier explodes with a left hook that drops Tyson. Tyson gets up on 8 but is still hurt. Frazier unloads on him and the fight is stopped. Everybody wants to see a rematch.
I scored Ali the winner over Berbick 97-93 when they did square off. Trevor would have boxed to survive against the peak version of Muhammad, as he did when he challenged Holmes, and Ali would have likewise settled for a pedestrian 15 round shutout. Don't like Tyson's chances against Liston. Sonny had the peek a boo defense thoroughly figured out, and knew exactly how to take apart a stylist of that ilk with unparalleled hand speed. Mike's chin would keep him in it longer, but he'd eventually crumble against a destroyer who once lasted the distance with a busted jaw. Tyson would have a miserable time with the post Patterson version of Jerry Quarry who suckered Spencer into the ropes and corners with his elusive counter punching prowess for a lopsided decision win. (Does anybody think for a second that Mike would not make the mistake of tailing Jerry into the ring perimeters?) Tyson didn't have the height and reach of an Ali which would permit him to hit without getting hit much in return. And after two extended sessions with Floyd, Quarry would have understood exactly how to deal with an opponent from the Cus D'Amato school.
I see that young version of Tyson bombing The aging Liston. He had his head together at that time. I don't see any problems from any of the other contenders. The comeback, that's the big question. Tyson was still a dangerous puncher after his own hiatus and could upset Frazier as far as I'm concerned. Frazier never fought anyone with that sort of speed and power. Possibly an early blow out a la the Foreman fight but if he gets through those early rounds he could stop Tyson late on. By the time of the Foreman fight Tyson isn't the fighter he was but still dangerous and Foreman was a bit naive as he showed in the Ali fight himself. I wouldn't say he was the well rounded experienced pro that Holyfield was at the time of the first Tyson fight. Anyway, on the other hand and it's all hypothetical but I see Ali having more trouble from Holyfield than he did against that Foreman.
Ali boxes circles around the likes of Berbick, Smith, Tucker, Thomas, Biggs, Tubbs, and Bruno. He has to work for it a little bit vs. an old Holmes, M. Spinks, and even Carl Williams but he beats them. He beats them all, some by KO. He has a tough time vs. Douglas but he beats him. He gives Holyfield a deserved shot. This is the toughest fight so far. Holyfield gives Ali many problems, much in the way that Norton did in 1973 but Ali wins by majority decision. Ali beats an old Foreman and then Holmes again, both by decision. He has a tough fight vs. Ruddock and has to get up from a knockdown to get the job done. Ali then goes to jail for... Ali comes back in 1995 and beats the **** out of Tommy Morrison, stopping him in the 9th round. Next up is Mercer, then Witherspoon. He beats them both by decision. Witherspoon gives Ali more problems than Mercer. Ali beats Bruno (again), Seldon, and then Moorer to unify the 3 major HW titles. He stops them all. In Ali's final bout he beats Lewis by decision.
If we took a prime version of Tyson and applied him to each of Ali's fights, he probably wouldn't lose a fight. But that's not how it works. Tyson would've beaten everyone from the 60s that Ali faced, if he was moving through the ranks at the same age Ali did, including Liston. However, we all know Tyson started to decline early. Was it a result of the layoff? It was probably partially to blame. But Ali had a similar layoff, so Mike won't escape that here. Ali fought Frazier at 29, Tyson came back at 29. Frazier was at his best that night at MSG, and Tyson was still formidable [well, more than formidable, but a long way from the beast of 86-88] against Bruno, Holyfield etc. Holyfield outworked Mike, frustrated him, outlasted him. I'm not so sure Frazier could do the same. Holyfield's chin was superior to Joe's, they both had incredible heart and Frazier wouldn't be staying down anytime soon, but I think even this post-prime Tyson would beat Frazier. By 1974, Ali was [and therefore Tyson would be] 32. Coming in against a prime Foreman, he would certainly be in for a rough night. Despite common opinion that Foreman would bulldoze even a prime Tyson because of the puncher-swarmer formula, I think Mike comfortable takes Foreman at his best. But at 32 years old, I don't think he would still have what it takes to beat Foreman. Foreman wins by stoppage. I can't really see many other Ali opponents giving Tyson much trouble. Although after Zaire, in defeat, Mike wouldn't have stayed on top like Ali did. We would've been in for some treats if he went up against the likes of Lyle and Shavers though. Talk about explosive. As for Ali, I'll keep it short. He would win every matchup through Tyson's career, up until Lewis, where he would lose a decision and retire. A Tokyo Douglas would give him a few troubles, as would a faded Holmes, but he would win.
I never saw Ali's fight with Berbick in its entirety. Only bits and pieces in clips.. I will say however, that I have never heard anyone say that they scored that fight for Ali. Liston having more hand speed than Tyson? Quarry beating Tyson by a shutout based on a performance against Thad Spencer? Not trying to be an ass, but I am having an excruciatingly difficult time seeing eye to eye with any of these points.