Would Tunney have "seen something" in Joe Louis as well?

GREAT posts so far guys, keep it up

 

the point was also made that it was a relatively green louis. he'd corrected this flaw, as well as one or two others, by the time of the rematch

by 1938, louis was one of the most complete fighting machines of all time and on that night, i would put much money on ANYONE beating him

in 1936 though, i think tunney would have had a chance to see a louis slightly before prime, with a low left hand, less than perfect movement of head and foot

 

Tunney would have probably seen the same flaw.

I don't know if he had Schmelings power to capitalize on it so effectivley though.

 

A prime Tunney against a green Louis? I'm betting on Tunney...probably by a very close decision. In a rematch, I'm betting on Louis, even a still slightly green Louis...and he wouldn't be as green after fighting Tunney the first time.

A prime Tunney against a prime Louis? I'm betting on Louis to win 2 in a row.

 

Schmeling's strategy was brilliant. I'm sure Tunney would have been just as innovative in coming up with a successful battle plan against Louis. Tunney's right was not as powerful as Schmeling's, but his chin was better, and he was a smarter fighter..

 

Louis never really changed his style of carrying the left hand low, or dropping it after he threw a punch. He improved a bit all-round generally, a bit more consistently compact in his stance and in his punching, but he was basically the same.
He left himself open for right hands over his left in several subsequent fights.

Also, this "flaw" that boxing lore has Schmeling noticing and secretly training for was something that press men and experts had already noted before. Yes, Schmeling planned to capitalize on it, and did so excellently, but it wasn't any work of genius or insight to have noted that Louis can be open for a right counter.

 

I agree.
I think Louis dished out quite a bit of punishment on Schmeling in those first two or three rounds of the first fight, and Max was just up for the fight. Max was just a great fighter.

I would concede that Louis was better for the rematch, and fuelled by the quest for revenge, and was really quite aggressive, but I think Max had slipped and wasn't the same. Not only was Max 33 years old, he had been 18 month inactive after the first fight due being cheated out of a title shot at Braddock, and all that anti-German feeling and the weight of the Nazi propaganda and anti-Nazi boycotts and stuff cannot have helped him.

 

Schemling was thought to be past his best for the first fight.

Tunney is even tougher and more mobile than Schemling was. Perhaps he would not KO Louis, but he might have an easier time out boxing him, and thanks to a great chin, would be more likely to surivie the occasional hard shot from Louis.

 

Louis isn't too troubled by movement, unless you're '67 Ali. As has already been pointed out, Conn was doing his best work when he came forward and engaged Louis on the inside.

 

Personally I think Schmeling had perfected his right hand for the Louis fight. The savage beating he handed out to Steve Hamas previous to the first fight with Joe was one of his best filmed performances. After beating Louis he looked good against Ben Foord and Harry Thomas. Even after having been demolished by Louis in one round, he came back to devastate the German champion Adolf Heuser inside a single round. In my opinion he got better with age and would have been a factor in the division for a couple of more years if not for the Second World War.

Movement does trouble Louis, there's no doubt about that. Tunney would be a very tough man for Louis to beat at any stage. Schmeling was the first really good, intelligent boxer that Louis fought, although he had fought solid boxers before, but none quite as smart as Schmeling. Bob Pastor troubled him, and although Tunney may not have been as "tricky" with his footwork as Pastor was, he was plain better all around. Conn troubled Louis with his fast feet, fast hands and combinations on the inside, Tunney wouldn't fight with Louis in close but he was equally as good at throwing combinations that Louis would have a hard time blocking. When Louis tries to respond, Tunney is already out of the way or has got Louis in a clinch.

Louis's best chance is to counter with a right hand over Tunney's low left like Dempsey did in their second fight and finish him off better than a rusty Dempsey could. Otherwise I see him getting the worse of the boxing match. However I give Louis a very good chance of finishing off Tunney in a 15 round fight.

 

Not at the moment but here are Schmeling vs Foord & Heuser:

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=14137

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paJrr7B6wyk[/ame]

4:17

 

Prime Tunney v. prime Louis is a 50/50 for me, so prime Tunney v. a slightly green Louis goes to Tunney. He would have seen the flaw that Schmeling did, though he wouldn't have been able to capitalize on it as effectively. I doubt he stops Louis.

 

I think Gene had vast experience and would have seen the openings, However I do not think he had the pwer of Schmeling in that right hand. The fight would be competive but Louis still had quite an arsenal at that young point in time. A competitve fight but Prime vs Prime I favor Louis W15 or late RSC