Na Judah has speed and thats where it ends. Vera has good hands, kicks, footwork, serious greco wrestling skills, very good Muay Thai and very good BJJ. Seriously the only thing lacking with Vera is the mental game just like Gonzaga. Judah needs alot of work to be an elite level fighter, Vera needs to make the adjustment to be more agressive.
I'm picking Jones by KO in 2. Maybe I'm buying into the hype a little much after seeing him completely destroy the ultra strong and durable Hammil. But I guess that's reason enough in itself to pick Jones by destruction again
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, jimmie. You're one of my favorite posters in this forum. I have to disagree with you here, because sugarngold made a good comparison. Judah is a near complete fighter, in his sport that is. Judah is very fast, has above average pop, and throws good combinations. Judah lacks focus, and unravels under pressure. Judah showed some durability against Cotto, but stopped trying to win after the 1st or 2nd low blow. Judah won 4 of the first 5 rounds against Mayweather, but caved once Mayweather began pressuring him. If you are unable to pressure Judah, you are in for an emphatic defeat. Just ask Corey Spinks about that.
+1 It sounds corny, but as Manny Steward was saying the other day, Champions are different inside to contenders...you can have the talents to be a chmapion, like Clottey or Vera, but if you really at your core dont want to be a fighter, it will show.
Well lets face is all you gave me was speed, power and good combos well thats nothing even close to a complete boxer. I havent seen Zab really throw combos at a consistent rate since he was in the Junior Welterweight divison. Right now he usually just looks for a counter left uppercut or straight right hand and his workrate is very low because of that and the fact that he has no authoritive jab. Zab has fast feet but no real footwork go watch say Bernard Hopkins whos flatfooted alot but his foot patterns and ring generalship is amazing. Zab doesnt relax you can see him tense up when he throws and usually after the 6th round or so hes very tired and he has no defense for a straight shot left or right hand doesnt matter watch the Tszyu, Cotto, Mayweather and Clottey fights and you will see what I mean. Spinks was a good fighter but thats Zab's only really good win and lets be real it was his 2nd shot at Spinks who is good but not great and was probably weight drained hell that guy struggles to make 160 but thats due to his own laziness from what ive heard.
It really helps narrow the gap when you are talking about a two division champ. We're not commenting on an unknown's bag work. Judah is not an all time great because he lacks the concentration and determination. Judah lacks to right mindset for conquering a division despite his physical gifts. That is exactly the point sugarngold was trying to make. So you're saying was a near complete fighter at 140, and not at 147? I don't know what you're reaching for here. This is like saying Vera's greco game is no good because is not as good as Couture's, or that Vera's bjj game is nonexistent because it's not as good as Penn's.
Judah is not an ATG because he just simply isnt a great fighter. Mental toughness had alittle to do with his losses but theres more to it then ok the guy is mentally weak. Judah is phyiscally gifted yeah ok well theres hundreds of great athletes who are not great fighters/players because usually like in this case hes lacking fundementally is so many areas. Im not saying hes near a complete fighter at 140 you said he has great combos im just saying he hasnt thrown them since he was in 140 facing softer oppostion. Im just using Hopkin's footwork as an example of technique and skill, Judah has fast feet but he doesnt know what hes doing with them while nobody is ever going to confuse Hopkins for having sprinter speed in his legs. My thing before was responding to the Judah and Vera comparison which I dont think is a good one. Brandon Vera has all the tools much like Gabriel Gonzaga needed to be a elite fighter what Vera is missing is mental which results in him not having a killer instinct and being to passive at times like ive said he should have only lost to Werdum he let Sylvia, Couture and Jardine walk off with gifts basically. Gonzaga is a guy who has everything as well but once a guy pushes him he breaks. A MMA verison of Judah would be someone like Kevin Randleman a guy who has great wrestling skills which is as important as fast hands is in Boxing. Randleman like Judah is very athletically gifted but they lack fundemental skill ALONG with mental toughness to be at a higher level.
That is not a good comparison, and it pretty much ends my discussion here. Randleman would be way more like David Haye than Judah. If mma and boxing had a belt system like bjj; Randleman and Haye would be blue belts. Judah would be a high purple to brown belt. Most likely a brown belt. Either you don't understand boxing, haven't seen much of Judah, or just don't like someone questioning your opinions.
I dont care about you questioning my opinions do I wanna come to a forum where people kiss my ass and call me god ? Well that could be cool but im not exactly expecting it and I do like to have discussions. Ive been following boxing since 96 and been boxing since 04 do I have the knowledge of Eddie Futch ? **** no but I do understand the sport quite well. Judah is super talented but he just isnt that good. Ive seen Judah fight Ward, Witter, Millet, Tszyu, Corley, Rangel, Spinks 2x, Pineda, Martell, Rivera, Baldomir, Clottey, Mayweather, Cotto, Galvan, Vasquez, Davis and Johnson. The only fights I came away seriously impressed was a brief period of 6-7 months between 04 when he dominated Martell, Spinks and Rivera and this guy seemed like he was putting it together but turns out that it was just the level of oppostion. I watch this guy get hyped and hyped and hyped some more and get whopped time and time agian. Looking spectacular agianst journeymen only should get so far after awhile you should have more then one real good win. This forum pisses me off sometimes you got a guy like DLH whos fought everyone and beat most of those guys yet hes called overratted and just a hype machine and blah yet Judah beats noboddy and its oh give the guy another title fight and he just needs to get himself together mentally. Agian go learn how to jab, block straight punches, relax, take a good punch, and raise the workrate up. Also your belt system is probablly somewhat off. I have a bluebelt myself and know exactly what the teachers wanted to see. Its mostly about your defenses doesnt matter if its sub defense, mount escapes etc. So basically comparing it to boxing its kinda like a up and coming prospect. Randleman and Haye would be Purple Belts under that system which isnt a bad idea from you. Judah I agree would be borderline but if his only problem is only problem then shouldnt he just be a mid level Brownbelt at worst ?
Fair question, and my belt system comparison is hard to define. I think that Judah's lack of mental toughness is what keeps him shy of greatness. When his opponents keep the match a game like competition, he is able to excel. Judah sometimes copes with highly competitive game like competition, like he did against Spinks. When fighters are able to apply effective pressure, requiring him to maintain a high level focus and bringing his will into play, he wilts under the pressure. His left hand was too much for Cotto to handle. Cotto kept pressing and made Zab unable to throw hard straight lefts or uppercuts. Those are his money punches! Judah had all the tools to defeat Cotto, but was too weak mentally to apply them. Judah became more interested in winning by dq than by actually winning the fight. I believe that thus far, Vera has had a tendency to give into a different type of pressure. Vera seems to struggle with the magnitude of a fight as much as anything.
I respectfully disagree agian. Yes Cotto had trouble with Judah's fast and powerful left hands but Judah lacked one important tool to win. That was his workrate it was to low he looked like he just wanted a KO or like you said maybe a DQ. I remember Steward saying how consistent Cotto was in that fight and its true Cotto applied steady pressure and kept up a strong workrate while Judah was looking to much more a counter leg giving himself no chance to win a decision if it had lasted all 12.
I hope Vera gets smashed (to just end it all) but I think he'll win if they keep it standing up. Veras one of those guys who has no heart but is so talented, he cant be beaten decisively. I seriously hope he wakes up.
theres something about Jones that makes me really dislike him i dunno but i want him to lose this fight. I hope Vera knows he has to make a statement and comes out aggressive. only 2 jones fights i've ever seen were his bonnar fight and his hamil, and bonnar would have tko'd him if the last round was 30 seconds longer.
:yep Looking forward to all the fights but I can't wait to see that fight. Leaning towards Dos Santos as the guy is on a roll. When your as talented as Gonzaga, you can't never completely rule the guy out. Big fight for both guys as the winner will move closer to a title shot. I think Jones will beat Vera via decision as Vera is a hard guy to finish. If he does get a stoppage, I would be really impressed.
