Liston or Foreman? Who was better? My breakdown on 11 categories

Liston or Foreman? Who was better? My breakdown on 11 categories

I have seen dozens of threads on who was the better. As a fan of both who has seen both of them on at least 10 different occasions here is my break down on 11 separate categories.

Power: Both Liston and Foreman rank among the hardest hitters ever. Liston’s could hurt you with his jab alone. His right cross was fierce, his left hook could knock down a wall, and his uppercut was a fishing type of blow as well. Liston hit the heavy bag harder than anyone I saw on film. Foreman much like Liston had a heavy jab, a thunderous cross, a booming hook, and a head snapping type of uppercut. Liston punched more form the shoulders, Foreman got more leverage in his hips and legs. Both Foreman and Liston could hammer the body too. There is little difference between the two. Call it a draw.

Size: Defined as a full-blown tale of the tape. Liston was not very tall, but he certainly had some super heavyweight like dimensions. Among them were an 80+-inch reach, 15" fists, big legs, big arms wide shoulders, and a thick neck. Foreman was taller, slightly heavier, and slightly more muscled, but he had less reach. I give Foreman a slight edge here.

Skills on Offense: Liston was a rare technical type of fighter with his four basic punches. Liston could excel at either in-fighting or out fighting. Some feel Liston had the best jab among heavyweights. I disagree a bit but its certainly arguable. Liston was perhaps the most complete offensive heavyweight of all time. He could box, brawl or slug at arms length, mid-distance or close distance, and land any punch with good technique. Wow. Liston could also combo off his jab a bit. Foreman was more of a bar room brawler who did not rely much on technique. In fact he did not even care if he had technique or not. As far as Foreman was concerned it was the other person needed technique. Foreman came for the school of Rocky Marciano and tried to KO his man with just about every punch he threw. Foreman could miss badly, or be countered. Big edge to Liston on skills.

Skills on Defense: Defined as the ability make the other guy miss, punch anticipation, clinching, block shots with the gloves, base guard stance, use of footwork to get out of the way, and covering up. Liston had a classic high guard, and those huge fists made it even harder to land something solid on. Liston also had quality head movement, which is rare among heavyweights. Sonny did not have to block or clinch much, so he did not develop these type of skills. Foreman defense was mostly his offense. Foreman wanted to land and put pressure on the other guy. His guard geared toward offense, and he did not move his head much. Clinching for Foreman was reserved for pushing the other fighter back wards! Neither guy had top punch anticipation. Liston could make the other guy miss and get out of the way at times. Advantage to Liston.

Hand and foot speed: If Liston had a weakness it was average hand speed. I think Foreman, who was by no means fast handed, might have a small edge on Liston hand speed. Both Liston and Foreman had relatively quick feet for big guys, and could cut off the ring on smaller boxers. I do think Foreman was just a tad more dynamic overall, so give him the slightest edge here.

Quality of competition fought: Liston resume outside of Ali is a bit thin by the standards of all time greats, with Patterson, Machen, Folley, and Williams being his best opponents. Foreman fought a who’s who of the 60’s and 70’s. Frazier, Norton, Chavalo, Lyle, Young, etc… I am focusing on both fighters in their primes, but Foreman also fought top opposition in the 1990's as well. Big edge to Foreman.

Chin: Both fighters had top chins. Liston did not face as many punchers or get hit with as many bombs as Foreman did, so his chin is a bit more untested. I do think Liston could be hurt a tad easier than Foreman, who was only stopped once in his long ring career. Foreman’s stoppage loss was stamina related than anything else. Advantage to Foreman

Stamina: Liston had excellent stamina, and could fight a hard 12 rounds with plenty left in the tank. Liston never had to go 15 rounds, but based on how he looked vs Machen in the 12 round match, I think Liston was a true 15 round fighter. Foreman main weakness was suspect stamina in the mid to later rounds. Part of this was poor punch management by Foreman. Later in his career, Foreman wise up a bit and was more judicious with his reserves. Advantage to Liston.

Heart: Liston deep down was a bully, a thug and a quitter. The thing is very few fighters could last long enough to test these intangibles. When things did not go Sonny’s way, he often fouled. Liston quit vs Ali, and likely took a dive in the other fight. In other fights he was accused of putting a burning like liquid substance on his gloves. Foreman’s fighting heart seemed to be very good, except in the Ali match where I think he mentally packed it in, and in the Young match were Foreman was concerned about gassing late. Edge to Foreman.

Ring Generalship: Liston knew what the other guy had, and did not have. Liston was a rare fighter who matched up well vs punchers, swarmers and boxers. Liston never punched himself out, or was out thought in the ring. In general he fought the right type of fight. Foreman’s ring generalship was questionable. It cost him vs Ali. If Foreman would have simply 1-2’d Ali on the ropes, then backed off and collected his breath, he would have forced Ali to change things up. Foreman should have clinched more often when he was tired, but did not. Foreman never took rounds off to catch a second wind either. Advantage to Liston

Intimidation / Killer instinct: Oh Boy. Foreman was so big and strong many thought he was unbeatable. Big punchers with tough chins who go all out are always highly feared. Intimidation was a big weapon of Foreman, and once he had you hurt, that was it. But deep down, I think Foreman was a somewhat fearful guy. Liston was a street thug. A man who has in many fights in and out of the ring with other citizens and the cops. Liston was also a mob enforcer. It is safe to say Liston went though some real life and death situations in and out of prison. You just can't replicate that without experiencing it. Liston pioneered the stare down as a weapon, and seemed to scare his opponents stiff to the point where one got the feeling the match might end right after the stare down. Even Ali was scared of Liston. Small edge to Liston.

Tally:

Liston:5
Foreman: 5
Draw : 1

 

Liston or Foreman? Who was better? My breakdown on 11 categories

I have seen dozens of threads on who was the better. As a fan of both who has seen both of them on at least 10 different occasions here is my break down on 11 separate categories.

Power: Both Liston and Foreman rank among the hardest hitters ever. Liston’s could hurt you with his jab alone. His right cross was fierce, his left hook could knock down a wall, and his uppercut was a fishing type of blow as well. Liston hit the heavy bag harder than anyone I saw on film. Foreman much like Liston had a heavy jab, a thunderous cross, a booming hook, and a head snapping type of uppercut. Liston punched more form the shoulders, Foreman got more leverage in his hips and legs. Both Foreman and Liston could hammer the body too. There is little difference between the two. Call it a draw.

Size: Defined as a full-blown tale of the tape. Liston was not very tall, but he certainly had some super heavyweight like dimensions. Among them were an 80+-inch reach, 15" fists, big legs, big arms wide shoulders, and a thick neck. Foreman was taller, slightly heavier, and slightly more muscled, but he had less reach. I give Foreman a slight edge here.

Skills on Offense: Liston was a rare technical type of fighter with his four basic punches. Liston could excel at either in-fighting or out fighting. Some feel Liston had the best jab among heavyweights. I disagree a bit but its certainly arguable. Liston was perhaps the most complete offensive heavyweight of all time. He could box, brawl or slug at arms length, mid-distance or close distance, and land any punch with good technique. Wow. Liston could also combo off his jab a bit. Foreman was more of a bar room brawler who did not rely much on technique. In fact he did not even care if he had technique or not. As far as Foreman was concerned it was the other person needed technique. Foreman came for the school of Rocky Marciano and tried to KO his man with just about every punch he threw. Foreman could miss badly, or be countered. Big edge to Liston on skills.

Skills on Defense: Defined as the ability make the other guy miss, punch anticipation, clinching, block shots with the gloves, base guard stance, use of footwork to get out of the way, and covering up. Liston had a classic high guard, and those huge fists made it even harder to land something solid on. Liston also had quality head movement, which is rare among heavyweights. Sonny did not have to block or clinch much, so he did not develop these type of skills. Foreman defense was mostly his offense. Foreman wanted to land and put pressure on the other guy. His guard geared toward offense, and he did not move his head much. Clinching for Foreman was reserved for pushing the other fighter back wards! Neither guy had top punch anticipation. Liston could make the other guy miss and get out of the way at times. Advantage to Liston.

Hand and foot speed: If Liston had a weakness it was average hand speed. I think Foreman, who was by no means fast handed, might have a small edge on Liston hand speed. Both Liston and Foreman had relatively quick feet for big guys, and could cut off the ring on smaller boxers. I do think Foreman was just a tad more dynamic overall, so give him the slightest edge here.

Quality of competition fought: Liston resume outside of Ali is a bit thin by the standards of all time greats, with Patterson, Machen, Folley, and Williams being his best opponents. Foreman fought a who’s who of the 60’s and 70’s. Frazier, Norton, Chavalo, Lyle, Young, etc… I am focusing on both fighters in their primes, but Foreman also fought top opposition in the 1990's as well. Big edge to Foreman.

Chin: Both fighters had top chins. Liston did not face as many punchers or get hit with as many bombs as Foreman did, so his chin is a bit more untested. I do think Liston could be hurt a tad easier than Foreman, who was only stopped once in his long ring career. Foreman’s stoppage loss was stamina related than anything else. Advantage to Foreman

Stamina: Liston had excellent stamina, and could fight a hard 12 rounds with plenty left in the tank. Liston never had to go 15 rounds, but based on how he looked vs Machen in the 12 round match, I think Liston was a true 15 round fighter. Foreman main weakness was suspect stamina in the mid to later rounds. Part of this was poor punch management by Foreman. Later in his career, Foreman wise up a bit and was more judicious with his reserves. Advantage to Liston.

Heart: Liston deep down was a bully, a thug and a quitter. The thing is very few fighters could last long enough to test these intangibles. When things did not go Sonny’s way, he often fouled. Liston quit vs Ali, and likely took a dive in the other fight. In other fights he was accused of putting a burning like liquid substance on his gloves. Foreman’s fighting heart seemed to be very good, except in the Ali match where I think he mentally packed it in, and in the Young match were Foreman was concerned about gassing late. Edge to Foreman.

Ring Generalship: Liston knew what the other guy had, and did not have. Liston was a rare fighter who matched up well vs punchers, swarmers and boxers. Liston never punched himself out, or was out thought in the ring. In general he fought the right type of fight. Foreman’s ring generalship was questionable. It cost him vs Ali. If Foreman would have simply 1-2’d Ali on the ropes, then backed off and collected his breath, he would have forced Ali to change things up. Foreman should have clinched more often when he was tired, but did not. Foreman never took rounds off to catch a second wind either. Advantage to Liston

Intimidation / Killer instinct: Oh Boy. Foreman was so big and strong many thought he was unbeatable. Big punchers with tough chins who go all out are always highly feared. Intimidation was a big weapon of Foreman, and once he had you hurt, that was it. But deep down, I think Foreman was a somewhat fearful guy. Liston was a street thug. A man who has in many fights in and out of the ring with other citizens and the cops. Liston was also a mob enforcer. It is safe to say Liston went though some real life and death situations in and out of prison. You just can't replicate that without experiencing it. Liston pioneered the stare down as a weapon, and seemed to scare his opponents stiff to the point where one got the feeling the match might end right after the stare down. Even Ali was scared of Liston. Small edge to Liston.

Tally:

Liston:5
Foreman: 5
Draw : 1