"Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

Of course the conditions matter in a huge way ... no matter how you slice it I like JOhnson. Sullivan was a physical marvel by all accounts ... exceptionally fast hands true one punch power ... a great chin and stamina. However, he was never trained as a boxer, ever. He was self taught. All the talent in the world but was really more of a strong contest man as far as advanced training goes ....

There is little doubt in my mind that a Sullvan that was trained would have been an all time terror as a cruiser at least along the lines of a Dempsey or Marciano ... however, boxing is a science and he lacked the training to win a decision over Johnson who would have poked and held his way to a decision win ...

 

We know that Sullivan was almost certainly faster, bigger and a harder hitter than Choynski. So, if he lands cleanly, i think he finishes the fight. Prime Sullivan also has far better Stamina than Ancient Jeffries, and you know that if Johnson wins this one, he must knock Sullivan down and out, much like Corbett. We can also say, with pretty reasonable confidence, that if Johnson shows up in the shape he did to many of his title defences, Sullivan knocks him out cold. Let us not forget that virtually no one went four rounds with Sullivan, much less longer.

And let us not also forget that many people, particularly those from Jack Johnson's era, considered that the older fighters who were trained and used to much tougher conditions were actually better fighters. Jack fought quite a few fighters who were active towards the end of John L's time, none of whom were in his league, and several of those fared better than average against Jack.

In fairness though, Jack did improve since this time and Johnson was certainly better than Jim Corbett who KOd the older Sullivan and anyone else that Sullivan fought, for that matter. And by quite a bit. And Jack would crowd John L, grab his arms from the inside and generally make it near impossible for John L to land clean.

I think that the bigger Johnson might surprise John L with his strength in the clinches, just like he surprised Jeffries. And this could make things interesting. I definitely see Sullivan being frustrated for long periods, not hitting Jack cleanly and generally flirting with DQs, by using headbutts and other roughhouse tactics.

There is no way that this fight is scheduled for anything but a fight to the finish, and you would have to think that this would favour John L, but i wouldnt overemphasize that advantage. Jack Johnson will land his uppercut plenty on John L and this will tire him out. In fact, a dominant Jack Johnson win wouldnt surprise me at all, but i have to say, at the moment i do lean towards John L Sullivan landing the big knockout blow at some stage, whether it is early or late, and doing what Choynski did.

 

To answer the question whether Sullivan hit harder than Choynski, who KO'd Johnson, Joe himself said he didn't hit one-tenth as hard as Sullivan.

From John L. Sullivan: The Career of the First Gloved Heavyweight Champion:

While in Australia, Joe Choynski told the press there that Sullivan was the king of the ring and could defeat Goddard, Jackson, Slavin, or anyone else. “I don’t think the man ever put on a glove who could have a look in it with him when he’s well, and you can take what I’m telling you for Gospel, and good Gospel at that.”

When asked by Smiler, a well known Australian writer, whether Sullivan could land his right swing on a big shifty fellow with a good jab like Jackson, Choynski responded,

You have never seen Sully fight, Smiler. His right arm don’t do any swinging; it comes across like a flash of lightning with a jerk, and if he misses he’s so quick you can’t get your head out of range before it’s back ready for another shot at your jaw, and how it does fly, ping, ping. I think he’ll land on Jackson right enough if he meets him….

People in this country don’t understand the color line, and therefore they can’t grip Sullivan’s prejudice against Jackson properly, but you may rest easy that John is afraid of no man breathing. Personally, I wish he would fight Jackson, for I know how long the fight would last, and who would win it.

Choynski had seen Jackson fight and had even sparred him, so he had a basis for his opinion. Although Choynski himself did not draw the color line, he understood Sullivan’s position and did not believe it was due to fear.

As for Joe Goddard, Choynski complimented him as a good fighter because the Australian had twice defeated Choynski via KO4 in 1891, although he had managed to deck Goddard. However, Choynski also said,

I don’t think he’d have a ghost of a show with Sullivan. You see, it’s this way. Sullivan is quicker than I am, and he hits with terrible power. If I’d a tenth of Sullivan’s force I’d have beaten Goddard both times I fought him, but I hadn’t it. Now, it’s easy to figure it out. I think, honestly, that John would smash him down with very little trouble.

 

Rules of the day. This would be a no decision fight. And a no decision is the most likely outcome imo. But Sullivan knocking out Johnson is more of a possibility than the otherway round IMO.

 

okay then I favour Johnson on points.

 

I had also read Choynski , a monster hitter in his own right, saying after seeing Sully live that John's power was tremendous ... he was flattening men with one shot back in days when KO's were infreguent .. he was like the Babe Ruth of the KO ...

 

Corbett said Jeffries and Fitz hit harder than Sullivan, and he fought all three of them. Did Choynski ever spar with Sullivan?

 

Yes.

Alegedly, the older Sullivan had to take it easy on him.