If Wlad ads another notch to his belt against Chambers, will it help his legacy?

I already have Wlad Klit rated at # 13 on my ATG list.... In my book his legacy is secure.... BUT! The Haters and Skeptics will never give Wlad Klit his props in the ring.... Why? Because they've already made up their minds.......

I'm the same way but in a different direction.... I'll NEVER rate "Marciano & Dempsey" in the top-5 of the ATG list of champs..... NEVER! I believe I've got them around #'s 11 and 12........ To me, that's fair........

MR.BILL

 

I'm no fan of Wlad, but I'm simply acknowledging that he achieved the state of "hitting and not getting hit" pretty damn well. And he dictated the fight, kept it on his terms.
I'm giving credit where it's due.

He basically shut out his rival, and knocked him out too.
And I think Eddie Chambers is a decent boxer.

OK, Wlad is no Barney Ross.
Excuse me (forgive me) for having such low standards of what can be called "damn good boxing".
I'll leave those standards to the elite connoisseurs.

OK.

 

Wlad's size -as well as his strenght and power, explains why he is so effective. The problem is that so many on this site and everywhere else confuse the formidable benefits of his size with technical skill.

Wlad has a jab that alternates between pawing, shy nonsense and the lamp post type. He has a crushing, well-executed right cross. His left hook need not even be thrown right to do maximum damage. He controls range well -which is the last a man that size with that jab can do!

His deficiencies are as myriad as the HW crop is meek. Chambers' performance illustrates two things:

1. The difficulty of Wlad's style.
2. The low caliber of modern HWs and trainers in terms of conditioning and strategy.

It is basic, but it is effective for a reason. And the reason is that the man is a behemoth who fights on the retreat.

Wlad's overriding objective is clear: don't get hit on the chin. Everything else is secondary. Manny's frustration is the frustration felt by millions of fans -at least on this side of the pond. That fight was a chore to watch.

 

Fair points

Wlad's size definitly contributes to his ability but maximising your size and/or natural attributes is a skill, and a hard one to learn IMO. You have probably seen countless times a tall boxer get involved in a trench battle.

 

Wlad is enormously difficult to beat, my assertion is that it is for reasons other than what the majority believe it is.

Sure, he deserves credit for the win and his reign. However, while I can't fault him for the lack of serious threats, I'm not about to apply some kind of affirmative action standard to pretend that he's earned a ranking alongside even Foreman.

Or, we can watch film and appreciate those who deserve to be labelled elite technicians of the sweet science!

 

Or, they've objectively analyzed his style, era, and disposition and arrived at the informed opinion that Wlad is a front-runner who does not perform well when under pressure and therefore would not survive clashes with any number of big aggressive bangers from better eras.

 

Not really Stonehands. Weve seen quite a few guys with similar attributes fail miserably in the heavyweight division in the last two decades. Some credit must be given to the guy for perfecting his style but yes some of it has to do with the opposition.
Not getting hit on the chin is the objective of every fighter.
Mannys frustration is because he wants an exciting marketable fighter that doesnt have to be so cautious with a 209 pound threat in front of him.

 

Boxing is not purely about hitting and not getting hit. It is an aggressive sport by definition and it has to be. If every fighter fought like Wlad, the sport would be DEAD in TWO YEARS. Boxing has a responsiblity to survive and its fighters are there to fight. Watching the HW champion skip backwards like the Breer Rabbit at the slightest feint of a left hook is, frankly, pitiful. The fact that the opponent is not a puncher and Wlad himself acknowledged that fact (?) makes it worse than pitiful. Wlad could have punched right through that stupid guard.

During the golden era, any number of Wlad's fights would have been stopped, callled a no contest, and both fighters would have been tossed out of the ring.

Behemoth Heavyweights fail miserably because they take risks in and out of the ring and because they run into something better.

Jess Willard ran into Dempsey -who, unlike modern HWs knew how to deal with giants. Primo Carnera ran into Max Baer and Joe Louis. Jose Luis Gonzalez ran into Riddick Bowe.

Wlad rarely takes risks in the ring. He's purely a sportsman. He's not a fighter between the ears. He will, however, fight anyone even given what I see as his real fragility. Lucky for him, "anyone" currently means an assortment of low-risks.

 

Sure it is. You can still be aggressive and not get hit ala Mike Tyson in his prime.

The heavyweights kind of do, thats why HBO wont even televise them anymore for the most part.

Well I agree with this, but Wlad would have and really did fail miserably trying to be a more "textbook" heavyweight. It is ashame big strong guys fight like that, but unfortunately I think they have to.

 

I misspoke. You asserted that not gettng hit on the chin is the objective of every fighter. I disagree. Boxing is indeed about hitting and not getting hit, with an emphasis on hitting. Wlad has it half-right.

He is best-suited for that style too, but that style can be beaten and it is frustrating to see how few trainers understand how to defeat that style. It only confirms my firm belief that there are too few formidable trainers who understand more than the rudiments of the fight-game.

 

Umm.. aren't you a huge Joe Frazier fan? :huh I'm quite confused.

 

I dont know how any trainer with a smaller heavyweight can go into a bout with Wlad thinking they can outbox him. It boggles the mind.

 

--and that is what keeps happening! To be sure, Wlad hits like hell, but it is unbelievable how these so-called world-class opponents stand and wait at precisely the wrong range. And then they try to counter, as if Wlad doesn't just have to lean back and make them miss.

 

Right, you have to drag him into a close range brawl. Both brothers are absolutely lost on the inside, Wlad moreso.