How would 21st century training, nutrition 'n PEDs improved ATGs?

Yes I think so, especially later in their career if they still have the same competitive mindset and will to win. I think a fighter like Evander Holyfield is proof of that if you believe the whole Evan Fields deal.

 

Isolated examples.
(
The most defined six-pack (no, it's a eight-pack actually) on a boxer I've ever seen is from some old-timer from 1920 or earlier. A picture I cant find at the moment, no idea of the name of the fighter.)

Also, all your modern examples are from weigh-ins, whereas all your "old-timers" are not.

 

Johnson didnt get the raw end of anything, he was using AS since 82 but then when he wasnt close to being the best in the world and then started taking the **** doing **** loads of gear. He wasnt hot as a technician or as a genetical anolomy, just shed loads of explosive muscle built from the years of roids

Comparitively Lewis stayed around the same level since his teens and didnt improve a great deal

Surely you understand the difference from a minor infraction and a major infraction? I'm sure you wouldnt advocate 4years ban for excess caffiene in the system and that is the equivilent of what Lewis had in his body

 

I'm not advocating any bans.

I'm just saying Ben Johnson was doing what a lot of others did, but he got caught once and took the full weight of the drugs in athletics "scandal" at a time when it suddenly became fashionable to have hysteria and moral outrage about this form of cheating.
I guess it's a lot to do with the high-profile nature of his particular event too. But I think many of his predecessors and successors were using too.

Anyone who runs 9.79 is a great athlete, IMO. I dont care what they are on.

Also, I doubt it's even possible without some sort of AAS or hormone-type drugs to run those sorts of times.

 

The djinni's out of the bottle. There's no going back and we have to look on at a sprting landscape in which non-users cannot compete.

Ali was injected with steroids in the 70s. I'm sure many others were too.

I don't like it but I can't see how it can change. I thinnk we should just be gorwn up about it's use and allow everyone to come clean.

 

So naive... And so over the top defensive for someone who thinks they are right (which actually is indicative in the true sense of the word).

All medal winning track athletes have been taking PEDs for decades. That's not opinion that's something that athletes have openly discussed.

It doesn't indicate anything. How does being a child prodigy prove anything about drug testing?

Re-watch the Mayweather moments. Watch the body language. Not really wanting to out the guy down but anyone who is holier than thou is usually onto something nobody else is.

The only crime is getting caught.

I'll get out of my armchair when you take your blinkers off...

 

When I mentioned pairing Mackie Shilstone (or at least placing him in the company) with Sugar Ray Robinson, I meant it for SRR's weight climbing years. He'd probably have much better health and longevity. Something along those lines. Imagine him being able to conquer Maxim and then some. It would take a lot of research to continue to speculate this kind of prospect. The safety that would be added along with that kind of knowledge, it would wash out a lot of those traditional health myths from the older eras.

 

1. No thats completely unsubstanciated, I personally know for a fact some medal winning athletes and 1 world record holder that havent done any gear. I've not known any true ATG athletes mind you. But the point is some do and some dont, is it possible many are, ofcourse, but no certainly not every athlete.

You also have to bare in mind some PEDs improve performance but some hinder, Dwain Chambers went backwards under Balco drugs. The strength to lift weights sprinters need to lift to gain optimal explosiviness are naturally attainable. I've known plenty of natural lifters throw around the kind of weights Ben Johnson was lifting

2. It indicates Lewis always had the potential to run those times and it was no aboration, he was near his peak as a teenager. Unless you believe he was roiding for years as a teen, which in turn would have stunted his growth, and hes tall, but dont let anyone of that affect your thinking

3. I'd put that down to Mayweather having poor social/verbal skills and lack of social confidence. Again why ask for random drug testing if you're doing drugs? The only reason Floyd put that in his contract is everyone was whispering in his ear

 

Yes great idea, make it a prerequisite of the sport to die of liver failure in your mid 40s :-(

 

No they arent top modern boxers on average have lower bodyfats outside of the HW division, much more fighters are ripped to shreds these days, fe old timers were, and if they were it was unusual. The most ripped boxer I've ever seen is Pacquaio. Harold Johnson had very low bodyfat for his era though no doubt

 

That's probably a complete myth though.
I know powerlifters take probably the most liver toxic steroids in the biggest quantaties of any athletes, and for years too, and they compete in untested competitions. But they dont fall down dead of liver damage. And these guys are probably taking in it overkill doses. Also, pro bodybuilders, who get retired Mr.Olympia competitors, most of them are alive and well and many of them are actually kind of healthy. And these are extreme users.

 

Your pitching 2 of the most ripped pre-80s against 2 fat HWs thats hardly fair as I was comparing greats of each era

Harold Johnson had great conditioning and a low bodyfat, great genetics, must have had a conjusive diet to that, most back in the day fighters did not. I'll take your Harold Johnson and raise you

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Fighters werent on average this ripped back in the day, thats a fact, theres countless examples today of ripped fighters, pre 80s it was very rare to see a ripped fighter

 

I've a known a few who have passed on from liver failure and its a pretty sorry sight seeing a once strong man, weakened, lying on his death bed, skin completely yellow, tear dripping down his face seeing out his last few days.

No myth about it plenty of roiders have died from the stuff, just because you see 90yos smoking away like a chimney doesnt mean smoking doesnt kill

 

Yeah, but just because someone can kill themselves with excessive and stupid use of the stuff doesn't make it a "prerequisite of the sport".
Nor does it alter the fact that millions of people use the stuff and suffer no ill effects.

I'm no advocate of steroids, but I accept they are part of the world we live in. And other drugs, like HGH.

The point Ezzard made is that a vast number of top athletes for decades have been setting records with use of the drugs. And they will continue to do so, so the anti-doping set-up is a bit of a farce. Half the "clean" sports "heroes" are probably using. Perhaps more than that.