My All Time Top 10 List(for whatever that's worth)

Bill Butcher · Mar 23, 2010

On fighters Ive seen & not just read about.

Robinson
Ali
Pep
Armstrong
Duran
R. Leonard
Chavez
Whitaker
Louis
Hearns

Boilermaker · Mar 23, 2010

Boxed Ears said: ↑

That among others is a fairly bold statement.
Click to expand...

By that, i meant at unlimited weight. If two wins, one by brutal knockout dont suggest you are the better fighter, then i dont know what does. Or do you think Charles was past prime and prime Charles reverses things?

Boxed Ears · Mar 23, 2010

Boilermaker said: ↑

This content is protected
If two wins, one by brutal knockout dont suggest you are the better fighter, then i dont know what does. Or do you think Charles was past prime and prime Charles reverses things?
Click to expand...

If that's your meaning, I didn't get ya the first time. Makes a very different statement that way.

Boilermaker · Mar 23, 2010

Boxed Ears said: ↑

If that's your meaning, I didn't get ya the first time. Makes a very different statement that way.
Click to expand...

Okay, fair enough.

One other thing which is interesting, as i start to like Rocky more and more as a P4P great. When he fought Moore, his weight advantage was just 1/4 of a pound! Against Ezzard Charles, he had a 2lb weight advanatage the first time, and was actually outweighed by 5 lbs in the rematch! Jersey Joe Walcott enjoyed about a 15lb weight advantage, while Joe Louis had a 30lb advantage. Despite never losing a fight, Rocky gave up weight in about 80 to 90 % of his fights. That stat alone makes him a P4P consideration. If he was a lightweight or a welterweight with the same wins, he would be in the top echelon. He was a very good fighter.

Abdullah · Mar 23, 2010

Jorodz said: ↑

Ok, so i'm gonna be off the forum for a few weeks visiting scotland and ireland (woo hoo) and I've been thinking about this lately (notably during class today) and thought I should finally put pen to paper and make a list. It's based in roughly equal portions:

a)Resume (longetivity/variety of and quality of opposition)
b)Talent (skill set, variety, dominance)
c)H2H(how well they would have done historically, how they were about to use their talent and prospects against others in their best weight class)

I'll briefly rate how they do in each category and describe any weaknesses they may have that reflect their position

*I fully expect and welcome hate for one of these...

1.Harry Greb (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10) *thanks to mcgrain and burt for the education on greb
-weaknesses (relatively low punching power at elite level, scared the **** out of prospective opponents)

2. Ray Robinson (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (unable to maintain level of excellence when physical gifts left, footwork wasn't on par with some of his other talents)

3.Henry Armstrong (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (some loses to fighters he should have beat such as ambers, zivic which is to be expected considering activity)

4.Muhammad Ali (Resume 10, Talent 9, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (**** body attack, no in fighting, lapses in focus lead to losses against norton, spinks and horrible outing against young)

5.Roberto Duran (Resume 8, Talent 10, H2H 9)
-weaknesses (lazy trainer, too many loses on record and too many excuses, serious trouble with jabbers and movers at elite level, especially as he moved up in weight)

6. Sam Langford (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (little footage but it shows incredible in fighting, strength,and power, regularly challenged bigger fights but did suffer numerous loses showing his size was a disadvantage, perhaps carried fighters for opportunities but still affects resume)

7. Benny Leonard (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (perhaps power but still able to score knockouts when needed such as charley white, unsuccessful attempts at higher weights though DQ for 147 title is odd, commonly rated 2nd best at lightweight though argument can be made for supremacy over duran)

8.Ezzard Charles (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (reluctant fighting style after baroudi, engaged in brawls when he shouldn't have in later career, occasional lose in early career while learning but counts against his resume)

9.Willie Pep (Resume 10, Talent 9, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (virtually untouchable in prime but vulnerable to the clutch style of sammy angott, little power at elite level, able to be outmuscled and bullied by saddler)

10. Roy Jones (Resume 7, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (poor resume shows unknown quality against the truly elite, safety first approach at light heavy lessens legacy as he regular took 2nd rate opponets the distance or toyed with them, chin may have been an issue)

Feel free to tear me a new one
Click to expand...

Hey, guy, I'm not going to criticize you. Of course I don't agree with Jones, but this is your list, not mine. Some people are ready to hang you if you didn't list there guy as #1, or if you list someone they don't agree with. This is all a matter of opinion. I think your list is a good one. :good

essexboy · Mar 23, 2010

Jorodz said: ↑

Ok, so i'm gonna be off the forum for a few weeks visiting scotland and ireland (woo hoo) and I've been thinking about this lately (notably during class today) and thought I should finally put pen to paper and make a list. It's based in roughly equal portions:

a)Resume (longetivity/variety of and quality of opposition)
b)Talent (skill set, variety, dominance)
c)H2H(how well they would have done historically, how they were about to use their talent and prospects against others in their best weight class)

I'll briefly rate how they do in each category and describe any weaknesses they may have that reflect their position

*I fully expect and welcome hate for one of these...

1.Harry Greb (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10) *thanks to mcgrain and burt for the education on greb
-weaknesses (relatively low punching power at elite level, scared the **** out of prospective opponents)

2. Ray Robinson (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (unable to maintain level of excellence when physical gifts left, footwork wasn't on par with some of his other talents)

3.Henry Armstrong (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (some loses to fighters he should have beat such as ambers, zivic which is to be expected considering activity)

4.Muhammad Ali (Resume 10, Talent 9, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (**** body attack, no in fighting, lapses in focus lead to losses against norton, spinks and horrible outing against young)

5.Roberto Duran (Resume 8, Talent 10, H2H 9)
-weaknesses (lazy trainer, too many loses on record and too many excuses, serious trouble with jabbers and movers at elite level, especially as he moved up in weight)

6. Sam Langford (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (little footage but it shows incredible in fighting, strength,and power, regularly challenged bigger fights but did suffer numerous loses showing his size was a disadvantage, perhaps carried fighters for opportunities but still affects resume)

7. Benny Leonard (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (perhaps power but still able to score knockouts when needed such as charley white, unsuccessful attempts at higher weights though DQ for 147 title is odd, commonly rated 2nd best at lightweight though argument can be made for supremacy over duran)

8.Ezzard Charles (Resume 10, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (reluctant fighting style after baroudi, engaged in brawls when he shouldn't have in later career, occasional lose in early career while learning but counts against his resume)

9.Willie Pep (Resume 10, Talent 9, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (virtually untouchable in prime but vulnerable to the clutch style of sammy angott, little power at elite level, able to be outmuscled and bullied by saddler)

10. Roy Jones (Resume 7, Talent 10, H2H 10)
-weaknesses (poor resume shows unknown quality against the truly elite, safety first approach at light heavy lessens legacy as he regular took 2nd rate opponets the distance or toyed with them, chin may have been an issue)

Feel free to tear me a new one
Click to expand...

good....good....good....good....good....good....good....good....good....NO!

All joking aside, I wouldnt have Duran above Langford and Charles but its all about opinion really.

TheGreatA · Mar 23, 2010

Robinson had great, outstanding footwork in my opinion, one of his best aspects. The one criticism I'd have about him is that he wasn't a defensive master on the level of Pep, Whitaker, Locche but then again he wasn't exactly a defensive fighter.

Jorodz · Apr 2, 2010

Thanks for the feedback all! loads to think about, especially duran (of course jones i knew i was gonna get butchered for and now that i got him off my chest, should reconsider that 10 spot...) oh and the fact that if i use a rating system, it should probably reflect how i actually rate the fighters! few months reading and back to the drawing board

Log in or Sign up

My All Time Top 10 List(for whatever that's worth)

Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

Abdullah Boxing Junkie banned

essexboy The Cat Full Member

TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

Log in or Sign up

Forums

My All Time Top 10 List(for whatever that's worth)

Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

Abdullah Boxing Junkie banned

essexboy The Cat Full Member

TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member