Wlad V George??????

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Mar 21, 2010.


  1. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    I think the old Foreman was way more durable. Partly because of his improved balance and defence, partly because of his improved pacing.

    Prime Foreman: knocked out by Ali, sure he was tired, but who's to say he won't tire against a bigger, harder hitting man? Young knocked him down, who is not a big hitter at all. Lyle knocked him down twice and nearly had him out; he's the only puncher that landed on Foreman. Frazier did land a few nice hooks, but they didn't seem to have much on it, and Joe was always more of a wear-you-down type of guy than a one punch hitter.

    But then in his comeback... he takes volleys of punches from Holyfield while only staggering, Morrison's shots, Briggs' bombs, etc. He was definitely more durable.
     
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,579
    Nov 24, 2005
    The 70s fighters were just better.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,786
    29,190
    Jun 2, 2006
    I chose the Foreman of the Norton ,fight ,and so it might look like I am moving the gaol posts, by giving those later examples.My point is that Foreman's stamina issues are over played, he lost one fight were he exhausted himself trying to ko an ATG who took severe punishment without wilting,don't let any body tell you Ali didnt get hit, and hit good in their fight.
    Wlad gasses out against a journeyman ,but no one says he lacks stamina.
    What George did was fight at a much more relaxed pace, as he aged, coming forward behind his jab, instead of throwing ko shots each time he worked slowly towards the finish.
    No one improves punch resistance with age , in fact it usually decreases.
    Foremans coaches, after Zaire were Gil Clancy,Kid Rapidez and Charley Shipes.
    Foreman of the Norton fight kos Wlad ,imo.
     
  4. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,229
    257
    Oct 22, 2009
    I disagree. At the very top they were slightly better but at the contender level all era´s were pretty much even imo.
     
  5. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

    56,251
    10,725
    Jul 28, 2009
    Plus if it hasn't been mentioned, there's the issue of that absurd drying out ritual Sadler put him through in those days. What that must do to your stamina...well, at the least it can't be good.
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,579
    Nov 24, 2005
    I dont agree with that, but I was just talking about the ones Foreman fought anyway.
    Briggs & Morrison weren't as good as Lyle & Young.
    Holyfield wasn't as good as Ali.
     
  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,579
    Nov 24, 2005
    I think the dehydration was definitely an issue in the Young fight.
     
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,579
    Nov 24, 2005
    I agree. Taking ten years off and coming back in as an overweight version of yourself at 39 wont do anything for your chin.
     
  9. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    That's a different discussion, but you're not seriously suggesting that Young & Ali hit harder than Morrison and Briggs? Because that's what this is about.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,786
    29,190
    Jun 2, 2006
    Good point!
    I'm not big on Dick Sadler at all.He was a bit like Col Tom Parker a carnival barker ,in charge of a Mona Lisa and treating it like Phyllis Diller!
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,786
    29,190
    Jun 2, 2006
    Foreman learned patience and cunning as he got older, he had the ability to set traps ,whereas in his first career it was " full ahead ,and damn the torpedos" !.
    The second phase of his career, I would give the clear edge to Wlad because the measured approach that George brought into the ring would allow Wlad's confidence to build ,and he would begin landing jabs and hooks from long range, marking up Foreman's facial tissue.
    Wlad is comfortable if you let him set the pace. Take him out out of his comfort zone and, onto the back foot, and his confidence deserts him.
    The young Foreman would come looking to land big stuff, and Wlad would be a rabbit in the headlights.He hasn't George's durability ,nor his balls imo.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,786
    29,190
    Jun 2, 2006
    Frazier did land at least three good hooks, Foreman didn't even blink.
    Cooney landed a good hook on George , it registered but that was all.
    Who says Wlad hits harder than Foreman?
    Young knocked Foreman down because George was coming into the shot ,his own impetus drastically increased the effect of the punch ,and he wasn't down long was he?

    Emille Griffith knocked Dick Tiger down for the first knockdown of his career.
    Pompey
    Calhoun
    Webb
    Giardello x4
    Fernandez
    Carter
    Torres x2
    Hank
    None of these did.



    Griffith's record was 23 kos in 112 fights for a 20 ko%, was he a big hitter?


    Carmen Basilio knocked Kid Gavilan down for a nine count ,for only the second time of Gavilan's career
    Demarco
    Olson
    Turner
    Lausse[a monstrous hitter]
    Waterman[ 74% kos]

    None of these did.

    Basilio's record ? 2 7kos in 79 fights for a 34ko %.


    Its the circumstances of the kd that need to be taken in to account.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,786
    29,190
    Jun 2, 2006
    Thats an angle that never occurred to me ,you could well be right.
    Though of course we know huge muscled guys tend to gas out quicker,, because of the oxygen they consume.[Is that right]:huh:lol:?
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,579
    Nov 24, 2005
    No, that's not what it's all about.
    Scoring a knockdown isn't just about punching power. It's largely about ability.

    Morrison and Briggs wouldn't even be around for the 8th round against the Foreman that Ali faced.
    Nor would they have survived Foreman's onslaught against Young in the 7th (or was it 5th?) round.
     
  15. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

    20,862
    138
    Jul 6, 2007
    Right, thats why someone as small as Holyfield could drop even the most iron chinned guys, because of his accuracy and delivery, and why a guy like Lamon Brewster who had good natural power couldnt even knock down a guy with a **** poor chin in Cliff Etienne.